Thread: Good coupla of rounds

We had some good rounds tonight, cerbere in particular we were doing particularly well I think.. of course before that I had to kill some of you before I could change sides to join, I feel sort of bad about that... but it was definatley good gameplay *grin*

Yes, I remember telling the other guys in the squad. "Shit there's ape, he just killed me, I need a rezz."

I got even though!

A reprint from another thread with additional material.

Teamwork

Mindlessly moving forward without regard for the safety of others is a sure team killer. The group must move as a unit... together. And, since body-shots are less effective, as Common Infected (CI) can take more damage, it's imperative that a team-mate not be made to fight a horde alone. There is no getting around this fact and it cannot be disregarded. It's a no-brainer that if you cannot, or refuse, to work as a team player you shouldn't be playing L4D.

In Realism, should you or the person you abandoned be killed, without a defibrillator, if you can even be found, you/they are lost to the team till the next safe-room. One player gone and it's pretty much back to the safe-room to start over. That of course means you can't abandon anyone. Heaven forbid I should have to remind anyone of that point. This mode removes the auras usually shown around players and it makes it quite easy to lose track of where your team-mates are. It's extremely important to keep your team-mates within eyesight at all times.

The most egregious player behavior excepting rushing is hard to pin-point. But an attempt is better than leaving this to chance. I'm sure others will point out my deficiency here.

Don't move in front of your team-mates when they're poised to fire. Everyone does it but no one admits to it. Stealing someone else's kill, and that's what it is, is a low-life's tactic. If you're going to try and steal someones kill at least do it so it doesn't cause friendly-fire. I can't remember the number of times someone has jumped in front of another player, to steal a kill, only to get hit and then blame the other for their antics.

If you cannot work as a team player please don't inflict your idiocy on the rest of the squad.

Rushers

That means no rushers period. Effectively, a rushers primarily relationship to a Realism game is as a team killer. Since the Director "removes the auras usually shown around players," a rusher in Realism has more potential team-killing attributes.

Trying to save a rusher from a horde is problematic in that you can't tell which is which. By the time you do get the situation under reasonable control the malcreant is probably ready for the bone-yard or a defib. And as been shown, time-after-time, a rusher, if they haven't the good grace to leave, may eventually consume the whole teams resources.

One for all, and all for one, but every rusher for himself. The best response to a rusher, who has effectively abandoned the team, is to abandon them. After the carnage has been dealt with, if the rusher leaves, defib and move-on. If the rusher stays, I see nothing positive to be gained other than to leave him behind and move on. Maybe by the time you get to the safe-room they may have disappeared and you'll have, at the least, a dependable bot.

Melee

Melee weapons are good if used right, and lots like to use them, but, to be honest, few seem to have the talent. I personally have yet to get the hang of melee and seem to take too many slaps from the infected. A average player marauding through a horde may cause too much damage to himself, and often, to the other players. And a one-on-one melee, since it has to be done in the open, exposes the player to hunter/smoker attacks and, if rescue is need, draws the teams into a uncontrolled situation.

And the last comment on melee is that while you're out there doing your melee thing you're in the way of others also trying to fight the horde. That is... you attract friendly fire. In the end all you may have done is to provide the infected with a meal and the team with a restart. And as we all know, with the minuscule attention span provided to the current human model, too many restarts provides too few players.

Charger

When getting rid of a charger that's pounced someone, it's not good practice to get so close that it attracts friendly fire, to you, from others also trying to kill the charger. What's the purpose if other's have to limit their fire from your ill choice of an up-and-close? An up-and-close that all too often itself misses the charger because your too close to aim properly? The friendly fire inflicted on you, and your blocking others from getting at the charger may serve some purpose, but I would make a guess that it has little to do with team-work or killing the charger.

Pistols and riffles

I know it may not seem sexy but use pistols and leave the riffles for the hordes and tanks. The Magnum is the most effective weapon against infected in a Realism game. Concentrated magnum fire can take out a horde in seconds. Up close the brains, eyeballs and innards are flying everywhere. Enough to fill up the whole screen. It's a sight to behold. After all, isn't that what were all there for? So for a proper show use the proper fire-power.

Tank

Don't fight the tank up close. It is never good form to have the tank slap you around because you want to show how big your balls are. Although I must admit it's always a treat to see a player smacked half way across a map or ricochet off a hard surface.

If a tank is torched, the reason it is torched is to kill it in the 25 second burn cycle, which of course necessitates that you let it burn for 25 seconds. I hope you do see the connection. So with that in mind, try not to stop to fight it, unless of course you're stuck or at a safe distance. Even then, at a safe distance, it's a waste of ammo unless you use a pistol.

Healing

And it may seem trivial but heal your team-mates even when yellow. Why? It starts the extra health-pack cycle early in the round. And for every healed team-mate there is another health-pack added to the health-pack cycle queue. As with rushers a health-hog's primarily relationship to a realism game is as a team killer.

Rescue

Rescue your team-mates a soon as possible, not after you have racked up that extra 3 kills, as soon as possible. That extra few kills will mean nothing if you have to restart the round. And of course you will give away the fact that you're an unreliable team-mate, after which there may be no team-mates to play a game at all.

The defib unit

What you might, or might not know, is that the Director will replace the defib unit you use on another player in the same manner that it replaces a health-kit that is used on another player. So there really is no excuse not to defib a player.

If everyone opts-out of being a health-hog, health-kits shouldn't be that much of a problem.

Someone who goes to the extreme of not wanting to waste a defib on someone should keep in mind the consequences. I can't speak for others, but if someone slacks me, or anyone on my team, I would prefer that they be replaced with a bot till a better player comes along. That would necessitate, at least for me, leaving them behind and moving-on. No big deal to me to rid myself of worthless player.

grenade launcher

Please leave the grenade launcher be. Every player that touches it has always inflicted damage on his team-mates that far out-weighs its affect on the infected. The fact that it appears in the game, like the molly, in no way says that it should actually be used.

When I see someone pick up the grenade launcher I pretty much give up on the game. Why? Because it seems that the player will keep bombing with it just long enough to do too much damage to the team. What first started out as killing from afar, which I suppose is ok - except a riffle or pipe-bomb can do the same - eventually turns out to killing too near. It's the "too much damage to the team" that is pertinent. Why players do this is your guess - mine is that they like to rack-up cheap easy kills (I'm no exception, that is what I primarily use the pipe-bombs for). Once they start using it, it seems impossible to for them to put it down till the last grenade is gone.

The molly

The molly can be formidable if used right. But it has a way of bleeding back on you if thrown too close. With good hearing and the right throw you can catch an entire horde. In Realism it's effective at times, if you're caught off guard, to molly the middle and deal with the few that you had to intentionally miss.

But... If you toss the molly too close it will come back on you and could quite easily wreck the team. If you're not certain of the outcome it's better not to throw the molly at all.

And I still can't see why someone should throw a molly on a horde that's mauling a downed player. It's a toss-up between whether you can reduce the horde in time with gun-fire or whether you can save the player after the fire subsides. I personally choose the former and try and molly the area where the horde originates.

Doors

Here is a good tip from Janktrio that almost everyone ignores:

My tip for expert realism would be to close the doors behind you. I can't stress this enough, it really is useful because... you get a few more seconds to prepare for any CI or SI that try to attack you, since they have to knock down the door... first.

Friendly fire

And another from pepsiman3000 (edited for concision):

To avoid friendly fire as much as possible, especially during a horde, hold up in a spot and don't move or, if you do move, make your movements predictable. If crouched in the front of your team, move slowly, don't suddenly jump around or try to strafe around your teammates.

...

Don't stray off alone!!!

SI do a crazy amount of damage, but don't freak out and shoot your teammates trying to kill it. If you're close to a jockey riding someone and you melee it, don't try to shoot it unless it is absolutely necessary. You'll end up being scratched or you'll hit your teammate. Just shove it to death or use a melee weapon.

Personal note:

Last but not least. Don't steal you team-mates health-kit when he picks up the frag rounds. Don't jump in front of your team-mates to steal their kills - that includes that forward/backward twitch thing. And since the witches instant-kill is, well, an instant kill, wouldn't it be best not to allow her to rip you to shreds? And there's that weird thing where, if you miss, her scream calls a horde on the soon-to-be-dead trio.

On killing your team-mates

Don't kill your team-mates because you want them to come back at full health. Be happy with the fact that all, or most, made it to the safe-room whatever their shape. Don't spoil it all with a subject execution. I personally am offended when someone wants to kill a player that I have so thoroughly enjoyed saving.

It seem to me that if this - killing your team-mates for health - is being done, it's no longer a game of skill but a cheap trick akin to using glitches. Using glitches means you are manipulating the software, not playing the game. I drop out of games when a glitch is being used.

On mentally challenged sadists

Don't assume all your team-mates are stupid. Some are just drunk and some are playing on an XBox (just kidding). I assume most are there to have fun just like you. Although it seems that mentally challenged sadists have, at times, taken over the game, you might just catch a break and get to play with players not born here in America (just kidding).

And always try to remember where the defib you're not carrying is located.

On the bile-jar molly combo

And an easy way to clear a large area of infected is the bile-jar molly combo. I hope you'll keep this in mind when someone throws a molly to no purpose. If you have a bile-jar throw it in after the fire and the rest is zombie consommé. Just remember that the horde that materializes might outlast the molly. So it's good form to make sure they're all gone before you encounter another horde.

Which of course presupposes you understand that one horde at a time is a good rule of thumb. Setting off a second horde while the team is fighting the first is as inept as setting of the car alarm as your team, still outside, fights it's way to the safe-room. I personally drop out of games when anyone does either of these things purposely. It's an indication that the IQ of the group has dropped below what is required to keep personal moral above the "these assholes suck" threshold.

On the low-down on Realism

And for those just getting started here is the low-down on Realism from Gameplay Modes - The Left 4 Dead Wiki - Left 4 Dead, Left 4 Dead 2, Survivors, Infected, walkthroughs, news, and more:

Realism can be played on any difficulty setting. This mode removes the auras usually shown around players. Also, auras only appear if you're close enough to do their action (such as grabbing a weapon or pressing a switch). Realism mode also makes bodyshots less effective as Common Infected can take more damage. The only weapon that can kill regardless where it hits is the M60 (where it causes body parts to explode) and the Magnum Pistol. Rescue closets are removed, making the defibrillator the only way to revive dead Survivors out in the open until you reach the safe house, where they will respawn again. Witches kill instantly on any difficulty (with the exception of Easy or against an incapacitated survivor) and are impossible to Crown. Speech bubbles over the Survivors are disabled when speaking via the microphone, although the speech bubble still appears above the character's icon. Unless one has an eye on the icons, knowing who speaks and spotting a talking teammate can be tough unless you can recognize that person's voice. Overall, this gameplay mode was created to take the teamwork factor that made the Left 4 Dead series famous to the next level. Realism can also be played by creating your own lobby.

Emphasis added.

I'd like to add.

Use your memory and always be scanning players till you get a nervous twitch. You can't always rely on your eyes and ears to locate a player in trouble. When in doubt about a player location just rewind your memeory back a few seconds. Then use your eyes and ears. Or just follow the commons, they will usually show the way.

Only kill the zombies that pose a threat. The more you kill the more the ai director will spawn.. and if you kill too many the ai director can have a freak out and send in the 5 alarm chilli ambushes.

Learn how to play with out a mic. Relying on mic is the 1st step towards failure. The mic should be used for polishing up a better play style not for bailing others out of problems. No one should have to explain where they are, and if they do its their fault.

Also learn how to communicate with flashlights, vocal spamming with the actual character and gun fire.

Pick a postion and playstyle. This helps more then anything. Its easier to function if players always stays in the same postion either the front, back, middle or sides. How many special or commons killed means little if you all end up dying. If you know the player thats always in the back got caught its easier to help. Players that keep switching postions and being agressive and defensive on the fly can cause a really nasty spill when shit hits the fan.

Originally Posted by kickingbird

Tank

Don't fight the tank up close. It is never good form to have the tank slap you around because you want to show how big your balls are. Although I must admit it's always a treat to see a player smacked half way across a map or ricochet off a hard surface.

On the bile-jar molly combo

And an easy way to clear a large area of infected is the bile-jar molly combo. I hope you'll keep this in mind when someone throws a molly to no purpose. If you have a bile-jar throw it in the fire and the rest is zombie consommé. Just remember that the horde that materializes might outlast the molly. So it's good form to make sure they're all gone before you encounter another horde.

I think these 2 points are more of a play style type of thing.

Being really agressive toward the tank can pay of big time, letting one player get hit allows 3 others to open up a can of whoop ass.

And throwing a boomer bile and NOT killing anything allows you to move freely, if you keep the horde alive and behind you the ai director will not spawn more commons till you kill them all or move so far ahead they are taken out of play. This allows you to move with the herd in back and cover alot of ground.

I personally think a boomer bile and killing them all with a moltov can be a waste and make the ai director really angry. But it all depends..

Originally Posted by the MASK

Or just follow the commons, they will usually show the way.

A funny...

Originally Posted by the MASK

Only kill the zombies that pose a threat.

I tend to kill all the CI to provide space for alternative approaches and because, among other things, that is what I bought the game for. Personally I try to eliminate all the CI between each safe-room. It also provides for better movement in reaction to hordes and SI. But that is just a style thing. And with a good team it provides plenty of kills to go around.

Originally Posted by the MASK

Learn how to play without a mic.

I have yet to gain anything from a mic player that I haven't already noticed in-game, with one exception. The only positive purpose that I can detect from the use of a mic is if someone needs help getting out of a pounce. Other than that the medium seems to be dominated by those looking to direct the movements of their team-mates and kids. The former seem not to understand, and remain impervious to the fact, that we are there to play a co-op game. The latter usually necessitate finding another game lobby.

Originally Posted by the MASK

Pick a position and play-style.

I personally like the understanding that each player rotates into a position, be it point, flank, or rear-guard as a tight, spontaneous, proactive/reaction response to the target being worked. As long as they don't break the flow of the natural rotation - rushing comes to mind - you can play some very interesting games. Of course these kind of games are few but are a charm when they occur.

Originally Posted by the MASK

Being really aggressive toward the tank can pay off big time, letting one player get hit allows 3 others to open up a can of whoop ass.

Being aggressive toward the tank, in my humble opinion, is a losing game. Someone always seems to take intentional damage for no discernible reason. I always take fall-back positions and let loose, and encourage others to do the same, till the tank goes down. I may get caught occasionally but team-wide persistence is usually effective. I would never designate to someone else what I wouldn't myself do. Nor would I expect it of others.

Originally Posted by the MASK

And throwing a bile jar...

Throwing a bile jar has always meant having to avoid CI while you're running around fighting the tank. When I fight the tank, I find that open running room is more a necessity then summoning up a horde to act as a proxy. Getting momentarily stopped by a CI might just provide enough time to let the tank catch up and slap me around.

I use bile jars exclusively, in combination with molly's, to clear areas of CI.

Originally Posted by kickingbird

Being aggressive toward the tank, in my humble opinion, is a losing game. Someone always seems to take intentional damage for no discernible reason. I always take fall-back positions and let loose, and encourage others to do the same, till the tank goes down. I may get caught occasionally but team-wide persistence is usually effective. I would never designate to someone else what I wouldn't myself do. Nor would I expect it of others.



Throwing a bile jar has always meant having to avoid CI while you're running around fighting the tank. When I fight the tank, I find that open running room is more a necessity then summoning up a horde to act as a proxy. Getting momentarily stopped by a CI might just provide enough time to let the tank catch up and slap me around.

I use bile jars exclusively, in combination with molly's, to clear areas of CI.

Like i said, its really about play style. Theres no real or right way when it comes to this stuff.. Just perference.

If one player can take the Tanks sights and keep it on him then the tank becomes easier to kill. Especially if a few players keep trading the tank off to each other. I will usually melee shove a tank and make him focus on me if i see another player stuggling. Also im just a freak like that... I love the thrill of it. And this is good for keeping the tank fight short, agressive and in one area.

And one punch on one survivor can mean 4 clips dumped in the tanks back at point blank range... Killing him in secoonds and removing the chance for other SI or the Tank to get everyone else.

As far as throwing a boomer bile when a tanks around.. This usually makes me want to kill that player. It just opens up a can of worms that can come back to haunt everyone.

For me the boomer bile is a 30 second shit ticket to do what ever you want. Like the Dark Canri 4 cresendo or SW2 cresendo.. One boomer bile means the difference between making it through with ease if you don't kill anything.

And its usually the reason i grab a boomer bile and save it for as long as possible. I treat it as a french fry on the ground at a mcdonalds parking lot where all the seagulls run to.. I don't actually want to kill them, just moved over to where i can keep track of them and stay out of shits way.

And i usually only trust myself with a boomer bile. I just hate it when i throw it and people stop and start killing all the commons.. My boomer biles mean, "Lets get the hell outta here"...Not to up the commons killed by a player.

Dealing with the witch

Since cr0wning is out of the question you can:

1. Have one person shoot her or light her on fire and HAUL ASS while your teammates shoot her to death.

2. Have one at a time or all of you (at the same time) run past her to avoid having to deal with her. Make sure you won't have to run back at any time or it might get messy.

3. If you are confident with the auto-shotty you can pump a few shots to kill her, but one wrong move and you're dead!

4. If all else fails, you have no mollie, no auto-shotties, nobodies fast, low ammo, and she is completely unavoidable the best option is to sacrifice the person in the worst condition. No sense killing a person with 100 health. You can always try to look for a defib after.

Originally Posted by the MASK

...

For me the boomer bile is a 30 second shit ticket to do what ever you want. Like the Dark Canri 4 cresendo or SW2 cresendo.. One boomer bile means the difference between making it through with ease if you don't kill anything.

And its usually the reason i grab a boomer bile and save it for as long as possible. I treat it as a french fry on the ground at a mcdonalds parking lot where all the seagulls run to.. I don't actually want to kill them, just moved over to where i can keep track of them and stay out of shits way.

And i usually only trust myself with a boomer bile. I just hate it when i throw it and people stop and start killing all the commons.. My boomer biles mean, "Lets get the hell outta here"...Not to up the commons killed by a player.

I knew I would somehow regret that absolute statement "I use bile jars exclusively, in combination with molly's, to clear areas of CI." The obvious sometimes eludes me. And of course you're right.

Originally Posted by the MASK

Theres no real or right way when it comes to this stuff.

Like that dash past the endless hordes.

Originally Posted by pepsiman3000

Dealing with the witch

Since cr0wning is out of the question you can:

1. Have one person shoot her or light her on fire and HAUL ASS while your teammates shoot her to death.

2. Have one at a time or all of you (at the same time) run past her to avoid having to deal with her. Make sure you won't have to run back at any time or it might get messy.

3. if you are confident with the auto-shotty you can pump a few shots to kill her, but one wrong move and your dead!

4. If all else fails, you have no mollie, no auto-shotties, nobodies fast, low ammo, and she is completely unavoidable the best option is to sacrifice the person in the worst condition. No sense killing a person with 100 health. You can always try to look for a defib after.

Donovan - Season of the Witch - YouTube

Can always send in Bill.

L4D2 - Bill Isn't Dead - YouTube

I sometimes use option one hopping I can elude the SI that the director, now and again, throws in the path. In Realism, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe they have set it up so the SI come at you more often? Could be my imagination.

When I've done just the first safe-room in the Crash Course Realism I personally get around 600 CI and some 20 SI. That occurs because I don't wait to fill the lobby and start with the bots. The combined score is some 1,100 CI and around 45 S

Course the best thing about Crash Course is you can get a Magnum early and pound away to your hearts delight. Eyeballs and innards everywhere.

But generally, if possible, I go around. The AI bots can't defib and, for some reason or other, the human bots can't be trusted to defib you. I personally will defib a player outside the safe-room. It's always good form and the director will replace it fairly quickly after you leave the safe-room.

Originally Posted by pepsiman3000

3. if you are confident with the auto-shotty you can pump a few shots to kill her, but one wrong move and your dead!

Its always good to have someone play safety with the player going in for the crown. Hell, the more players getting a shot in the better.

Theres a ton of ways to deal with her.. But burning her is probably the safest . But, things can always go wrong...