Thread: Teamplay in the Sandbox

So this started out as a response to the Breaking Point/Wasteland discussion, and then I realized I had meandered so far off topic and written enough that it probably needed its own topic.

Personally I think that sandbox style missions are not really leveraging tpg's strengths. And as of when I last logged on to wasteland a day or two ago, whether or not our version was qualitatively better, it was missing one of the natural teamplay encouragements of a revive system. We're getting a bit off topic, but I think it's important to explain that statement a bit.

There are artificial and natural ways that games encourage teamplay. I'm going to try and use non-Arma examples of other games because of the nature of arma being so modifiable that one can't make blanket statements. Natural methods are within the structure of the game, like having a group objective that requires teamplay to complete(TF2 is a good example of this with medic ubers/kritz), rewarding teamplay with points(e.g. assist points, heal points, or revive points), or having a high cost of death and having a revive system (which rewards those who participate in mutually reviving each other by avoiding death costs). Artificial methods are enforced teamplay through moderation, which is a subject for another time, but also includes a command structure(e.g. following the calls or the commander).

Cost of death is generally the investment in time and energy that is required to get back into the action. For example Counter Strike has a very high cost of death, you die and you are out for the round, as opposed to say DoD where the Cost of Death is only the time it takes you to walk back to the action. Both those games also have a high value associated with group objectives, plant the bomb/defend the bombsite/capture the flag provide objectives that everyone can see. But because of the high cost of death, we see a very different expression of teamplay in the former than the latter, Counter Strike makes elaborate plays and calls, while DoD you end up a single tactic of just rushing bodies forward.

Having a revive system like in the Battlefield series, or Left 4 Dead series also encourages teamplay, by reviving each other the players avoid the high cost of death, but imagine a L4D game where if a survivor goes down, they revive in 6 seconds with full gear. Suddenly, the cost of trying to revive teammates and being vulnerable doing so doesn't make much sense.

Wasteland and Breaking point don't really have much in the way of group objectives. There are certainly mini-missions, like capturing a piece of equipment, or taking money, but really it's a choice, just because you don't beat someone to that money shipment doesn't mean you lose. Some might say that survival is the objective, but if you die, do you really lose? You spawn back in. Now, Breaking Point and DayZ had a much higher Cost of Death due to the difficulty in gearing up, and thus a higher level of coordination was required as people were ready and willing to spend half an hour crawling through grass in order to avoid having to die and regear. In Wasteland, the cost of death is not in gearing up, but getting back to the action, which may or may not already be done for by the time you do so. I think we can all agree that gearing up in wasteland is a breeze. A revive system(like one of the many that are already present in many of the other Arma missions) makes it so that one can potentially shortcut that relatively low Cost of Death and be returned right into the action.

These are reasons that in Arma, the amount of teamplay and involvement becomes dependent on the mission. For instance, in Arma, Domination/Invade and Annex/Insurgency missions naturally have a lot of teamplay, as there is a moderate cost of death(you don't have to regear, but you do have to get a ride back into the action), and a high benefit to working with your team in order to be revived back in the action, or ferried to the action. Contrast that to King of the Hill missions where the cost of death is so low, that despite having revive, people find it easier to rush at the point without much coordination ala DoD because one can respawn and be back in the action so quickly.

The downside of a high cost of death of course is that people will rage out, get bored, or give up as opposed to paying it. Dying in breaking point after an hour or two of playing is likely to cause me to say, "okay enough for the night."

The problem with sandboxes is that there are no real group objectives, no dedicated win or loss scenarios, the only way to define that is organically by the players, and because of our tendency to WANT that feeling of teamplay and reward, when we are shattered from a cohesive group, the allure of playing tends to decrease drastically.

TL : DR version
These things promote the teamplay that TPGers like.
Benefits of Cooperation (Revive)
Cost of Death (Regear)
Avoiding Boredom (Rage)
Clear Objectives (Reorient)

If cost of death is low, benefits of cooperation are also low. If cost of death is too high, then rage is also high, if clear objectives are not present, then the first two are subjective to the player's personal goals.
Sandboxes generally don't have clear objectives, our version doesn't have much benefit of cooperation, doesn't have a big cost of death either...and avoiding boredom only happens at a certain critical mass of players.

I've already written on what I think a good strategy for using what tpg is known for(high teamplay both naturally and artificially enforced in an event based mission server), but that's generally my opinion of why sandboxes aren't the right place for us to deploy our assets in.

Good post.

I hadn't read it before I threw mine up last night.

Cost of death drastically affects gameplay.

The way I view cost of death in wasteland is that it should escalate over time. Spawn and instantly be able to get low tier gear. Get into the battle and win and get some upgrades. This is where the team play comes into effect. An coordinated squad will win their engagements and to the victors go the spoils. With these spoils the victors should have a leg up in their next encounter. Rinse and repeat.

Unfortunately , IMO the cost of death for the wasteland server is currently brutal. Not in the sense that you can't obtain gear, instead the tedious not fun manner in which you have to go about getting back in the game.

Death rewards you with 15km travels (or constant respawning spam for a reasonable spawn) and searches through houses for gear. I'd say the average wasteland gamer plays for 2-3 hours and currently 50+% of that time is spent looting building in empty towns or in transit trying to meet back up with squad mates. 50+% of that time is not my idea of fun.

In a 2-3 hour session I used to be able to kill 20 or so people. Now I'm lucky to get 5 in A3W maybe 10 in Sumatra.

I'll kill more people on breaking point in that time and after death am on max 6km to populated areas where I'm guaranteed action.

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