Thought this should be posted

**Panic** · 08-19-08, 12:45 PM

This is a PM convo between firework and myself that I thought could benefit all the mappers. And get some input on his first map.

Originally Posted by firework700

Okay i think this time you can help. I want to put some pillars around some of the steps i made, and some hand rails, and like little props and stuff like that.
But how do i get some of it t fit?
Heres some pics of my map:
[img width=700 height=525]http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd347/Kyl3_700/messingaround0000.jpg[/img]
Thats the bottom floor, with the door, and the first set of steps.Also the ceiling, and the floor of the second floor.
[img width=700 height=525]http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd347/Kyl3_700/messingaround0004.jpg[/img]
Thats the middle floor, i though itd be a neat idea to have a glass floor to see whats going on below, but the enemy can see you too.
[img width=700 height=525]http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd347/Kyl3_700/messingaround0006.jpg[/img]
And this is the outside, where you can see the window on the final floor.

Now this is just a test map, but id like to make it cooler, and maybe try to see if i can learn to put a 3d skybox? around it, idk what it is, but id be cool. I just want to put props, and learn how to add control points, i could make it so that theres on on each floor. But dont say how suckish my map is, 'Cause im still learning.

Thanks panic.

Originally Posted by Panic

Detail work is the majority of work in mapping, it involves just a lot of little brushes, and props. Check through all the props first to see if they already have what you are looking for so you don't have to build it. However, alot of the textures you have there, are CSS textures and won't work for tf2, just type tf2 into the search bar type thing on the big list of textures and it will show you all the tf2 textures.

Control points and other game-important objects are controlled with a combination of specialty props (The little ball on a stick thing on the left bar) and trigger textures. A trigger texture is a texture that is invisible to players, but naturally "triggers" and event. To see a bunch of other what they call "tool" textures, just type "tool" into the texture search.

As for getting everything to fit, that just takes time, you just have to zoom way in on the various wire frame drawing (use [ and ] to make your grid more/less precise)

All map making is just a learning process, go to www.fpsbanana.com and check out their tutorials, they'll explain in perfect detail how to add control points, detail, ctf, trains, etc... I'm diggin the map so far, I'm going to post this to the forum to get people's ideas.

**kyle700** · 08-19-08, 03:10 PM

For the props, does it have to be tf2 props, or can I add hl2 props too? Like just average stuff like desks and chairs?

**WW2-WARDOG** · 08-21-08, 12:42 PM

The stairs look a bit unatural, may I suggest, each step 8 high, 16 deep on the hammer grid.

**kyle700** · 08-22-08, 02:40 AM

Oky, ill try that. But im having glitch trying my map. When i compile it and run it, it puts me way up in the air, and freezes?

**WW2-WARDOG** · 08-22-08, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by firework700

Oky, ill try that. But im having glitch trying my map. When i compile it and run it, it puts me way up in the air, and freezes?

Sounds like you have an entity set wrong some place, or in the wrong place, it's up in the air wherever it is, related to spawn point.

Maybe all the entities required to start a map are not all there?

**kyle700** · 08-22-08, 03:11 PM

Ummm, lets see...
It worked before...  But i think the new patch screwed it up or something.  I Also tried to put a window in the bottom floor of my newest map, it looks the same as the other one but theres no outside floor.  When i put the brush in there, and did a carve, the skybox went all funk in my building and it was...weird. Just cant explain it.  Like the skybox created its own brushes thru the middle of my map.  So do i need to make a 3D skyox around it or something, ill try to get pics up to show you.  Windows would be cool with a skybox on the buildings, because the map has alot of features id like to put in, but i need thses things to work.

EDIT: Just wanted to know if there was a better way to make, like tunnels and windows, rather than carving it.

**WW2-WARDOG** · 08-23-08, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by firework700

Ummm, lets see...
It worked before... But i think the new patch screwed it up or something. I Also tried to put a window in the bottom floor of my newest map, it looks the same as the other one but theres no outside floor. When i put the brush in there, and did a carve, the skybox went all funk in my building and it was...weird. Just cant explain it. Like the skybox created its own brushes thru the middle of my map. So do i need to make a 3D skyox around it or something, ill try to get pics up to show you. Windows would be cool with a skybox on the buildings, because the map has alot of features id like to put in, but i need thses things to work.

EDIT: Just wanted to know if there was a better way to make, like tunnels and windows, rather than carving it.

The sky box texture is meant only for the skybox, nothing else, except for a rare circumstance, don't put the texture on anything but your 3D skybox. It encapsulates your map and everything in it.

You are probably having a problem with an object protruding through your map because, you created an object that was not a good shape, like a triangle square rectangle. This usually gives you an error in the map if they are not made right and causes invalid structure, probably as a result of vertex manipulation. Or an axis perpendicular to face error.

Open hammer and your map, click map at the top/ click check for problems/ scroll down the list until you see one of these errors and highlight it by clicking on it/ then click on go to error and look on your map window.

It should be highlighted in red, don't click fix button, it usually wont fix it right, manually readjust the object or delete it and remake it right, then check for map errors again.

If the object was made wrong, and you save and close the map, the next time you open it in hammer, it will deform the object and stretch it weird through your map.

As for An arch or tunnel try this link scroll down towards bottom of tutorial, it's the best way to make them for lower poly counts, and less errors, check the other tutorials too, try to NEVER use the carve tool, manually make the blocks around a window area, carve causes to many splits in faces, and increases poly counts in the map, killing FPS in it, GL.

http://www.vlatitude.com/tutorials.php?tutID=51

**SapiensErus** · 08-23-08, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by firework700

EDIT: Just wanted to know if there was a better way to make, like tunnels and windows, rather than carving it.

Yeah, manually create all the brushes. When you carve, it can also make really inefficient polygon counts. I never use carve.

Although, I should add, I used worldcraft about 6 years ago and I have not done any mapping since. But I did use it for hundreds of hours and got very proficient with it. I never ever use carve...

Also, dont encapsulate your map in a box with skybox textures. Think of your map as a series of chembers, and the outside areas have sky for cieling. If you put a big box around your map it will have a bunch of areas that are rendred in and will never be viewed making it freaking enormous.

**WW2-WARDOG** · 08-23-08, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by SoySoldier

Originally Posted by firework700

EDIT: Just wanted to know if there was a better way to make, like tunnels and windows, rather than carving it.

Also, dont encapsulate your map in a box with skybox textures. Think of your map as a series of chembers, and the outside areas have sky for cieling. If you put a big box around your map it will have a bunch of areas that are rendred in and will never be viewed making it freaking enormous.

That is correct, I did not mean, make a big box around the map, the guy will have to find tutorials on building a proper skybox, it was a simple explaination for a new map designer.