Thread: Uncommon Knowledge

As always with my longer posts, cut to the TL:DR if you want the distilled version.

There are things and mechanics in this game that exist, but that aren't explained by the game itself, or are difficult to understand. This is the place to demystify some of those things.

First up, a post from Demize before BF4 was released stated that on the Burst function for all weapons, it moves the first shot recoil multiplier to the third shot in the burst. That is to say, if you used the AEK, which is known for its 3x first shot multiplier, on Burst, the weapon would only incur that heavy recoil after all three shots in the burst have been fired. What this does is make burst firing much better at range for consistent hits, but it artificially slows your rate of fire because you have to wait between bursts for the recoil to settle.

Second is that there are oddballs in the weapon balance system, especially with the introduction of Naval Strike. Every weapon fits into a bullet caliber category that determines their recoil profile and spread profile. Generally, the recoil and spread profiles increase as rate of fire goes up within a bullet caliber category (For future reference: 5.56, 5.45 and 5.8 are considered the same bullet in terms of profiles). Only thing is, there are quite a few weapons that break DICE's own weapon balance:

• The F2000. A weapon at its rate of fire should have a .36 vertical recoil, but it instead has a .24 vertical recoil, the same as the QBZ-95-1. Its spread profile is correct though.
• The M16A4 is an intended anomaly due to it being a burst fire locked weapon
• The L85A2. There is all sorts of wrong with this weapon. For one, it has more vertical recoil than the 1000rpm FAMAS despite being a 750rpm weapon. It also has a glitched (I presume) recoil decrease (return to zero) function that is 4.5x slower than every other rifle in the category. It also has a 1.5x first shot multiplier, which is usually reserved for LMGs or very slow weapons (therefore, the L85 does not need a folding/angled grip).
• The AR160. It literally has copy-pasted Scar-H stats, but at 700rpm with the standard assault rifle damage profile and 30 rounds in a magazine. This is a problem because the AR160 loses its accuracy faster and keeps it lost for longer than any other standard assault rifle, which it's supposed to be.
• The PDW category is so filled with inconsistencies that I won't even try to explain them all. The category as a whole frustrates me in both stats and in-game usage. The one important note is the SR-2, which has the recoil profile of a 700rpm weapon and the spread profile of a 650 rpm weapon. What this translates to is a 900rpm PDW that keeps its accuracy longer than it should, according to the internal balance.
• Of the Carbines, the only anomaly is the G36C. It used to have the recoil profile of a 750rpm carbine, but DICE decided recently to instead make it the most overpowered carbine of the group. It has the correct vertical recoil of a 650rpm weapon, but with a lower first shot multiplier, and the lowest combined horizontal recoil in the game for a fully automatic weapon (a combined 0.2: 0.1 degrees left, 0.1 degrees right)
• In the DMR category, the SVD-12 is the only anomaly. Technically speaking, everything about it is normal. The only strange thing is its damage profile, which has its drop to 38 damage 20m early compared to every other standard DMR damage weapon. Every other standard DMR reaches the 38 damage floor at 80m, the SVD-12 reaches it at 60m.
• The LMG category is similar to the PDW category in its inconsistency, but the standout is the AWS for the same reason as the SR-2. It's a 780rpm weapon with the wrong vertical recoil and the spread profile of a 650rpm weapon. In exchange, it has the standard assault rifle damage scaling at range, instead of the LMG damage scaling. That is to say, it hits the 18 damage floor 12m sooner than the other LMGs

TL:DR: Putting a weapon in burst fire mode shifts the first shot multiplier to the end of the burst, instead of after the first shot. There are also weapons in the game that blatantly wreck the weapon balance at both ends, some are worse than they should be, some better than they should be.

I'll update this thread as I think about other obscure things.

I read use the sr2 and have noobs scream hacks

Originally Posted by maximusboomus

I read use the sr2 and have noobs scream hacks

^^^ True story

Originally Posted by Allane

TLR: Putting a weapon in burst fire mode shifts the first shot multiplier to the end of the burst, instead of after the first shot. There are also weapons in the game that blatantly wreck the weapon balance at both ends, some are worse than they should be, some better than they should be.

I'll update this thread as I think about other obscure things.

TLR
Get to the part about where you get your hacks.

In a game where weapon choice is almost as important as personal skill, understanding how the weapons work and what makes them good at what situations is important to me.

It doesn't take a genius to know this information either. The stats for the weapon are on symthic.com. All I did was use a little pattern recognition to realize that DICE used a proportional scale to balance faster firing weapons: higher ROF = higher base recoil, then factor in a multiplicative effect of a higher base recoil combined with a higher ROF for a rapidly increasing recoil per second as you go up the rate of fire charts. The weapons that I listed as exceptions are just that, exceptions, because they don't follow the internal balancing system.

Originally Posted by Allane

In a game where weapon choice is almost as important as personal skill, understanding how the weapons work and what makes them good at what situations is important to me.

It doesn't take a genius to know this information either. The stats for the weapon are on symthic.com. All I did was use a little pattern recognition to realize that DICE used a proportional scale to balance faster firing weapons: higher ROF = higher base recoil, then factor in a multiplicative effect of a higher base recoil combined with a higher ROF for a rapidly increasing recoil per second as you go up the rate of fire charts. The weapons that I listed as exceptions are just that, exceptions, because they don't follow the internal balancing system.

You need to redo your "Best for noobs guns" some of those guns have been so twisted. Also I think you should do requests.

Being you are immensely talented in game why not open the forum to choosing your weapons of choice on certain nights? IE Tomorrow night you can only use the famas with the PSO-1 canted sights heavy barrel and bipod, your sidearm the fn57, flashbangs, defibs and med packs.

Or we can all have fun and decide a specific loadout that as many people as we can muster will play. Confuse the smurfs why theres 10 players running with weird setups lol.

Originally Posted by maximusboomus

You need to redo your "Best for noobs guns" some of those guns have been so twisted. Also I think you should do requests.

Being you are immensely talented in game why not open the forum to choosing your weapons of choice on certain nights? IE Tomorrow night you can only use the famas with the PSO-1 canted sights heavy barrel and bipod, your sidearm the fn57, flashbangs, defibs and med packs.

Or we can all have fun and decide a specific loadout that as many people as we can muster will play. Confuse the smurfs why theres 10 players running with weird setups lol.

Hey, if you want to start a thread doing weapon requests, I'll be happy to do them. It sounds like fun.

I too have wondered what the general reaction would be to a server half-full of regulars all using the Scar-H (Or in BC2, all of them using the wonderfully noisy MG3). The kill feed and general noise going on would be priceless.

I love the 4x scope with canted iron sights it is a really good balance between the 50-200m range and CQB. The other set of sights I like to use (particularly on carbine and lmg) is 1x Holo with the 2x Magnifier for engagements 100m and under.

Is there anything special about the M416? I like to use that for CQB assault rifle work on maps like Locker or Metro (or storming/defending B on Operation Mortar). Seem to get a lot of kills using it compared to say, the AEK-971

If burst fire moves the first shot multiplier to the end then it seems pretty useless, might as well just always keep on auto and manually burst it.

Originally Posted by [CoFR]SirMoo

I love the 4x scope with canted iron sights it is a really good balance between the 50-200m range and CQB. The other set of sights I like to use (particularly on carbine and lmg) is 1x Holo with the 2x Magnifier for engagements 100m and under.

Is there anything special about the M416? I like to use that for CQB assault rifle work on maps like Locker or Metro (or storming/defending B on Operation Mortar). Seem to get a lot of kills using it compared to say, the AEK-971

If burst fire moves the first shot multiplier to the end then it seems pretty useless, might as well just always keep on auto and manually burst it.

The point is that if you micro-burst, you incur the full first shot penalty EVERY time you click again. On Burst, all three shots are made with the base recoil of the weapon, with the multiplier getting tacked on AFTER the burst is over. This ensures that you have the best chance possible to get all three shots in a burst on target at range. So far, it lets the QBZ-95B wreck house at mid to long range with a heavy barrel.