Thread: Squad Cam

You still know where they are via the map, and I don't feel the cam is too revealing (to even allow ghosting).
But that is not my call, only my pitch. I feel the cam is just eye candy, and eye candy is nice.

I see equal opportunities for squad-bombing, I say iif we can enabled squad cam. Tired of Spawn-die...

Originally Posted by draco7891

Let me qualify my answers, then.

The key difference is that in BF2/2142, there is a command hierarchy, and so holding spawn is a tactical decision undertaken by someone in a position of authority as a part of a strategy. Since in BC2 all the world's a stage, and all the players spawnpoints in't, there is no shotcaller, no strategy, no tactical decision-making. With the squad-cam enabled, it allows anyone dead to "shop around" for which ever squadmate is in the most advantageous position at that moment; "most advantageous" being "most points-earning potential in least unit-time". If you don't like where one teammate is, just spawn on another that suits your taste.

Now, if the squad came up with a strategy that did involve spawning on specific squadmates; for example, the squad rushes the front while one sneaks around the flank, those that die respawning on the flanker; then there is a tactical decision being made, but here again the squad-cam is unnecessary to this scenario. The spawnpoint is known, the destination as much so.

If the VOIP works with the dead rules as we think, then even if the squad-cam were off the live squadmate can call out if he's safe to spawn on. Then the likelyhood of being insta-nuked is about the same as it is in any of the other BF games; we've all been in squads where the half-second between the all-clear call and spawning in is all the time needed for an enemy attack chopper to crest the hill, or an errant bomber to drop its payload right in your lap. It happens, we move on and find better hiding spots for next time.

If BC2 had a command hierarchy and spawning on a teammate was a limited and/or predictable affair, then squad-cam wouldn't matter very much. As it is, squad-cam allows every individual the total luxury of intimate knowledge of the location going into the fight, and allows them to cherry-pick situations that benefit themselves and their individual scores the most. As well, it brings with it the spectre of risk-free ghosting.

Draco

Yet again, we have plenty of games hosted that have no command hierarchy, so having no s/l doesn't mean things can't be decided tactically. Just like someone "making the call" in CS, TF2, DOD and L4D, a call can be made from within teh squad, or even by the squad collective. The "hold your spawns" call can still be made. The "spawn on me here" call can still be made. Does it require squad cam? No, but neither does squad cam diminish it, and it may aid in making a tactical decision when there's more than one person in your squad to spawn on.

In the end the "it lends to stat padding non-teamplay" argument doesn't ring true for me, and I'm betting most of the rest of us feel the same about it. If, for now, it stays off so killcam can stay off, no problem, no squadcam is better than having killcam. However if the method for having squad cam and no killcam is found, there's no rational non-teamplay/cheating type argument that really holds water. There's just not enough view to give anything but immediate intel, which is enough to base a spawn or not spawn decision without being able to assess the entire tactical situation from spectate

Originally Posted by draco7891

Originally Posted by Walkerxes

Yet again, we have plenty of games hosted that have no command hierarchy, so having no s/l doesn't mean things can't be decided tactically. Just like someone "making the call" in CS, TF2, DOD and L4D, a call can be made from within teh squad, or even by the squad collective.

The point I was making is that in all these cases there is a shot being called, a decision being reached, teamplay being enacted.

Imagine if we played CSS with no call, just go whereever each player pleases, and thinks they'll get the most kills. The game obviously devolves quickly into useless pandemonium. In the same way, having squad-cam on makes that kind of shot-calling completely unnecessary; just spawn where you please, whereever and on whomever is going to net you more points. In the same way, squad-cam encourages self-centered, non-communicative points-focused gameplay, rather than forcing squads to work together and come up with a strategy. With squad-cam off, squads that don't work together are as lost and blind as they should be.

This logic makes more sense. I missed that particular message your first few explanations.

I would argue that if VOIP worked, the same intel would be being relayed (in an effective squad) via VOIP that is afforded by a squad only death cam mode. The game does have a command structure even without a specific hierarchy: Four elements containig four sub-elements each must act autonomously and coordinate within themselves to achieve some goal. I guarantee that if VOIP were working, any squad I am in is going to be asking individuals to spawn on certain points; just because no one individual in the squad is specifically in-charge, does not mean that a squad does not have to coordinate. And this coordination (as in all other BF games I have played) usually includes where and when to spawn.

That being said, the tools that would allow us to do this are not yet stable; hell VOIP still does not work. Let's worry about the big stuff for now. If there is no built-in way (the TTP way usually) to manage that effect, it probably ain't gonna happen until the game and third party tools are substantially more reliable.