• The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians Review by Rick Moscatello



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    Dully Keeps Its Promises

    The “dungeon crawler” was one of the first types of computer role playing game. You pick a party of adventurers, pop right into the dungeon, and have at it. Dungeon Master from 1987 was the first “modern” dungeon crawler, featuring actual real-time exploration of the dungeon.

    From Dungeon Master, this type of RPG ventured off into ever more detail, offering more to the world than a dungeon to explore, evolving into the RPGs of today with deeper stories to them than the basic formula of “kill everything, take as much stuff as you can, and finish the game.”

    The dungeon crawler has made a bit of comeback of late, with the relatively successful (and fun) Legends of Grimrock. The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians hopes to add momentum to the genre, and while it does deliver on many fronts, it relies a little too heavily on the old school formula to fairly say it’s a good addition to a games library.

    The main story of The Fall is good enough: you’re a guard in the dungeon that has recently lost a bunch of prisoners, who headed even deeper in the depths. Your mission, which you must accept, is to take three other guards (luckily, the usual character class options are available) and go kill the escaped prisoners, exploring monster-infested level after level, finding better loot and equipment along the way (the escaped prisoners, of course, also have found nice weapons and armor, and aren’t bothered by the monsters…).

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    Random loot is less exciting when you can't cash it in for something useful.

    A dungeon crawler needs some things to be successful. First, the dungeons need to be interesting, with puzzles and the like. This is Legends’ strength by far, and something of a shortcoming in The Fall. The dungeons are ok, I guess, but the barrels and stuff on the walls are dressing, and you don’t even get a map unless you find the magic map for each level or (shudder) draw one by hand. Mercifully, there’s an option to “easy mode” the game so that the important things are highlighted and you get the map for free. That said, I do admit that old school games made you hand-draw maps, and there was a special phrase (rhymes with “pixel-witching”) to describe how you had to find things. Since the game is promising old school play, I guess I can’t really fault it for having the standard play being old school (but, man, good luck finding a gray key lying on gray stone…). Still, I wish the puzzles here were more interesting than “pull the lever” and the like; a few riddles or something would have gone a long way.

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    Time to click well.

    The next thing a good crawler needs is fun combat. Again, the combat here, while solid, just lacks. It’s mostly just a flurry of clicking on each timed ability to whack the monsters while they’re whacking you. It’s real time, but you can pause every few seconds and queue attacks up, so it’s not bad, just…dull, as much about watching numbers drop to zero as epic sword-and-sorcery fighting. The graphics are fine, but you generally don’t notice them, because you’re staring at the four different little buttons you need to click. The only interesting ability is a “kick” ability that interrupts the monster’s attacks. This is easily the most fun, as getting the timing right means you can counter some pretty brutal assaults. Alas, this one, single, ability is on a 20 second timer…so fun, but frustratingly slow. You can also try running around, but your timers don’t reset while moving, monsters heal quickly when not in battle, and even ranged attacks don’t work past 10 feet, usually. That’s a shame, as allowing these tricks would have opened up combat tactics that make similar games fun.

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    So many options, so little relevance.


    Part of what makes combat less than fun is the character development, which is the third thing a game like this needs to excel. Yes, there are plenty of options, but the options are…dull. I gain a level after an hour of play, and get a choice of +2% dodge, +1% chance of criticals, +10% to armor or something similar…yes, those are improvements, but hardly exciting. After a few levels, you get more options for your attacks, but it’s slow business, and it made me miss the fun of the “figure out your spells” system of Dungeon Master…if you’re going to use old ideas, why not pick the great ones?

    A good story could save the many “not necessarily weaknesses, but definitely not strengths” of The Fall, but darned if I can find it here. I know you’re supposed to give a game its premise, but it’s tough to accept all the hostile monsters around the ridiculously deep prison, but okeedoke, maybe the prisoners are all super-stealthy. Why not give some explanation or hint early on about how the prisoners escaped and how they got equipped? I could also use an explanation why the prisoners stand, alone, at the end of each dungeon level, just waiting for me and the rest of the party to come and kill them…do they really have nothing better to do? This is not exactly compelling stuff.

    Bottom line: you’re going in, killing things, finding stuff, and finishing the game. If you’re looking to get an old school vibe, The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians manages to do it all decently, but it might be worthwhile to wait for a good sale, at the very least.
    This article was originally published in forum thread: The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians Review by Rick Moscatello started by Doom View original post
    Comments 10 Comments
    1. manutoo's Avatar
      manutoo -
      And for a real review of the game, you can head here : Review: The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians .
      The combat is exquisitely balanced. Yes, it relies on the generic trio of a tank to absorb enemy attacks, a healer to keep the tank standing, and two damage-dealers to take out the actual enemies. Yes, that’s a bit of an unexpected approach for a game that’s so old school in every other aspect. But it works so shockingly well, it’ll give you a brand new appreciation to the entire mechanic.

      Or read one of the long & detailed user reviews on the Steam Store page.

      I'm the author of the game, and I face-palmed several times reading Rick's review as he's obviously didn't get into the game at all.

      The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians is for people liking both Dungeon Crawler and Tactical Combat (or at least not disliking either).

      If you get in there without wanting to use your brain to handle the fights, then you'll end owned by the 2nd Boss ( = picture before last one of the review), do a rage quit and then write a bad review about the game...
    1. Kanati's Avatar
      Kanati -
      I did buy it btw... I do see some usability things I'm not particularly fond of. But I'm playing on a laptop with a trackpad. So looking down to have to pick things up on the floor is a bit of a pain in the butt. With a mouse I'm sure it's better. I'll play it more before I make any judgement but I like it thus far. Takes me back to my Dungeon Master days in the late 80s.
    1. Doom's Avatar
      Doom -
      You know, out of respect I ignored your e-mail to me on this, but if you're going to continue to engage in this level of unprofessionalism, then I guess I'll respond here.

      >>I face-palmed several times reading Rick's review as he's obviously didn't get into the game at all.<<

      Hope you didn't hurt your face too badly. You're right, I didn't get into the game at all. I tried, I honestly tried, but the game bored me and was a chore for me to play. I'm sorry. I like this genre of games, I play this genre a lot, and this one bored me. LIke I said in in the review, the game is just...dull.

      This is what's known as an "opinion." I'm sorry that I don't love your baby, but I did respect that the game was made and kept its promises.

      >>The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians is for people liking both Dungeon Crawler and Tactical Combat (or at least not disliking either).<<

      This is why I thought it was for me. I lurves me dungeon crawlers, I have quite a few of them, and enjoy them. I also like tactical combat. You keep using that phrase "tactical combat," but I don't think it means the same thing you think it means. See, if there were tactical combat in this game, then I could split my party up into 4 characters (instead of forced to keep them all in a block), and use tactics to win battles, instead of clicking on the "super kick, hack, heal, zap" in various orders.

      There is some strategy here, as far as overall party build, but tactics? I have an option to use a fire spell, or an ice spell, and past that I didn't see many options.

      >>If you get in there without wanting to use your brain to handle the fights, then you'll end owned by the 2nd Boss ( = picture before last one of the review), do a rage quit <<

      Hey, that was the 2nd boss? Gee, sure wish the game mentioned that somewhere, I had no idea, thought it was just another monster. Like I said in the review, the game really does an uneven job of telling the player what's up.

      Did I get owned by the second boss? Sure. I would have loved to have tried the tactic of splitting the party up and using ranged attacks and distraction...the game doesn't allow that tactic. I tried the tactic of running around to time my attacks...the game doesn't allow that tactic I tried the tactic of luring the 2nd boss back into the room and locking it in the room behind me....the game doesn't allow that tactic. I tried the tactic of running away to fight another day....the game doesn't allow that tactic. I tried the tactic of looking for hints or something on the walls...the game doesn't allow that tactic (or did I miss it?).

      You keep saying the game is about tactics, but...I kept getting frustrated at all the tactics I *couldn't* use to beat the monsters. I'm sure if I played with it some more I would have beaten the thing eventually but...I was bored.

      Did I rage quit? No, I bored quit.

      This isn't even a bad review, dude...it's a mediocre review. Did you even make it through the whole review, or did you hit yourself in the face so much that you couldn't read anymore before getting to the end.

      Let me help you by re-quoting the final two lines:

      "Bottom line: you’re going in, killing things, finding stuff, and finishing the game. If you’re looking to get an old school vibe, The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians manages to do it all decently, but it might be worthwhile to wait for a good sale, at the very least."

      That's not a scathing condemnation. Usually, if the game is crappy, I don't waste the time reviewing it unless I really have something more relevant to say than "this game sucks."

      Let's also take a quote from that "real review" you link (which, incidentally, the screenshots are mostly from level 2 and above, just like mine):

      "The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians draws on similar inspiration – the dungeon walls themselves could be mistaken for one another – but is much more of a slog. "

      A slog. Uh, some folks don't' think of "slog" as fun. Now, some folks do, but even your "real" review does give some indication here that the excitement level might be a little low. Perhaps I'm wrong. Please, can you find the word "slog" used somewhere as unequivocal praise?

      >>
      Or read one of the long & detailed user reviews on the Steam Store page.<<

      You referenced these, and I looked. I went and looked, and yes, some folks like the game, some folks don't. I particularly liked the long review by a "random" user on MetaCritic (I encourage the gentle reader to read that "review" and not see if there are any suspicious flags....).

      Some folks think World of Warcraft is the BEST MMO ever....some folks hate the game. That's how opinions work. Now, I've explained my reasoning for those opinions, above, and you can be forgiven, based on your self-inflicted head injuries, not to have understood my reasoning.

      But I calls them as I sees them.

      Good day, sir.
    1. manutoo's Avatar
      manutoo -
      @Kanati,
      yes, the game is meant to be played with a mouse. A player on Steam managed to play with a Steam controller, so it might be possible to play with a trackpad, but it'll be surely less comfortable than with a mouse.


      @Doom,
      1- on top of the article, I read "Review by Rick Moscatello", not "Opinion by Rick Moscatello".
      If you had written an opinion, I'd be fine with it, as anyone is entitled to his own opinion.
      However, a review is meant to outline the pros & the cons of the game so people can make up their mind to know if it's a game for them or not. I don't see the pros in your "review", but I see them in the Steam users' reviews.

      2- if you mouse over an enemy, you have a lot of details about him, including "Boss" in big bright yellow, as your screenshot shows ; the fact that he had about 20 times more HP than other enemies, and his portrait surrounded by a golden frame & sun could have been some good hints as well.

      3- It's unfortunate you didn't actually try the tactic to fight him with a good plan to counter his specific attacks (maybe you didn't even analyse them ?).

      4- Reading the whole Indiegamereviewer's review, I doubt he meant what you try to make him mean, as he ends with "Minor complaints, aesthetic and otherwise, aside, The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians is a monster of a game." I couldn't ask for higher praise of my game... :-)

      5- I like how you try to make it like it's a 50/50 on user reviews, where actually there's almost no articulated negative review ; mostly the negative reviews are "I don't like because it's not Grimrock" or "Too much fights".
    1. Doom's Avatar
      Doom -
      .
    1. Kanati's Avatar
      Kanati -
      Noooo... we don't censor people just because their panties are bunched. I find nothing wrong with your review and I find nothing wrong with his rebuttals. So... Just don't let this degrade into ad-hominem attacks and we're all good.

      Grimrock DID set a rather high bar. My initial opinion is that it is less than that, but more than just a graphical upgrade to Dungeon Master or Eye of the Beholder. If I were to rate it just on the short time I have played it thus far (1 hour) I would give it a six and a half out of ten. But that is initial opinion only and subject to change.
    1. Doom's Avatar
      Doom -
      In no way am I asking you to censor him. I'm trying to save the guy from himself. I mean, to claim that "reviews don't have opinions" or "reviews must have pros and cons lists" is demented and I see no reason to let him look that bad.

      And, yeah, if I were to give the game a numerical rating, it'd be in the area of 72 or so. If you've got to put 2+ hours into a game before "fun" is an option, I'm hard pressed to give it a much higher rating than that. I totally respect that some people will really enjoy this game...and totally respect that some people will hate the game with a burning passion.

      Are you averse to my putting numerical scores on reviews? It might help with Metracritic, and maybe attaching a number won't tick people off as much if I'm not enthusiastic enough.
    1. manutoo's Avatar
      manutoo -
      @Kanati,
      I just updated the game and I added a key to pick up all the items in the current cell (backspace by default) ; hopefully, it'll make this process less tedious for you.

      @Doom,
      yup, if I had seen a 72% as score for the game, I'd probably have been way less shocked, but still disappointed that you didn't get into the combat system. I'd have probably let it slide anyway in that case.
      It doesn't take hours to enjoy the game, if you don't like it now, you won't like it later (except maybe if you expressly change the way you play it). But people who enjoy the combat system in the 1st couple of hours usually will love the game the more it goes on, as it gets better & better (ie: more abilities, big boss fights, new enemies, etc.).
      Watching Youtube videos, I've seen that some people don't read anything, or as little as possible, and thus can't appreciate what they are doing ; in such case, the game becomes a kind of "randomly smash the icons" that will bring boredom pretty quickly as it feels pointless.
    1. Kanati's Avatar
      Kanati -
      Doom. Absolutely. Give games a score if you want. 10 point scale, 100 point scale, however you want to do it.
    1. Kanati's Avatar
      Kanati -
      And thanks for that pick up button. That'll help a lot playing with the laptop!
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