Unfairness at Port

**sL!ppY** · 07-17-08, 09:21 AM

As i said to each his own.. I dont disagree that moving the bomb is legal and doesnt compromise the game and this game was made with the intention that you could do that. However I find it hard to believe valve had the intention when making the game to allow the ability to glitch a bomb off the map.. or throw it on a roof.. or somewhere the T's have no chance to pick it up from.

As i said.. by that logic the T's should be allowed to take advantage of planting the bomb somewhere the CT's have a hard time getting to or defusing from... since the ability for a T to find a spot to plant the bomb thats hard to find or get to or defuse at is just as realistic as a CT throwing the bomb in the water to prevent a T from getting it.

**Pineapple!** · 07-17-08, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by sL!ppY

As i said to each his own.. I dont disagree that moving the bomb is legal and doesnt compromise the game and this game was made with the intention that you could do that. However I find it hard to believe valve had the intention when making the game to allow the ability to glitch a bomb off the map.. or throw it on a roof.. or somewhere the T's have no chance to pick it up from.

As i said.. by that logic the T's should be allowed to take advantage of planting the bomb somewhere the CT's have a hard time getting to or defusing from... since the ability for a T to find a spot to plant the bomb thats hard to find or get to or defuse at is just as realistic as a CT throwing the bomb in the water to prevent a T from getting it.

The gentleman has a point.

I believe it's alright for the CT's to move the bomb to a better location for them to defend it, but I don't think it should be legal for them to move it to a spot unreachable by the T's. As stated, I don't think Valve intended for the CT's to be able to move the bomb to the water on port without the T's having a way to get the bomb back, otherwise, there'd be places on almost every map where the CT's could move the bomb so the T's couldn't get it.

Yes, there are boxes where you'd have to double boost or something to get up there and get it, but at least that's feasible. There is NO rescuing the bomb from the water. And that's the only map where the world makes it IMPOSSIBLE to retrieve the bomb.

**Hocus Pocus** · 07-17-08, 10:18 AM

Well if the game is being played like it should there would be no time for the bomb to get thrown in the water. T's rush on port so if the bomb did get thrown in the water it's most likely because select people decided not to stick with the team and that gave ct's enough time to get rid of it.

**Pineapple!** · 07-17-08, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Hocus Pocus

Well if the game is being played like it should there would be no time for the bomb to get thrown in the water. T's rush on port so if the bomb did get thrown in the water it's most likely because select people decided not to stick with the team and that gave ct's enough time to get rid of it.

Very true, but I've seen CT's rush up the CT ramp, kill the bomber on the boat (eveen if the whole team rushes, usually only 2-4 T's make it on the boat) and then immediately bump the bomb off the boat into the water. Now, the T's, bottlenecked into one posistion (since CT's are ALWAYS coming from behind through T spawn, mid, and warehouse), are forced to eliminate all the CT's as a secondary objective? Usually: barely, if at all, feasible.

I agree w/ Toke, though.

Originally Posted by Toker

The opportunity for a CT to do that is like maybe once every sixty rounds or so. So, in that case it really isn't an issue, but I agree on the fact that when it does arrise, it isn't really fair...

**CivilWars** · 07-17-08, 11:06 AM

I agree with Hocus, and was going to post the same thing if it was not already mentioned. If the Ts all rush boat from the start, no stragglers, then with proper smokes and flashes they will beat the CTs to the boat. In a 10 man team if you have 1-2 watching warehouse that leaves 7-8 to pick up the bomb before the CTs even have a chance to do anything to it. The only time I see that the CTs could get to the bomb is if the Ts are not rushing together. If they are not following the call then maybe they deserve to get screwed over.

**ic0n** · 07-18-08, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by Pineapple!

Originally Posted by sL!ppY

As i said to each his own.. I dont disagree that moving the bomb is legal and doesnt compromise the game and this game was made with the intention that you could do that. However I find it hard to believe valve had the intention when making the game to allow the ability to glitch a bomb off the map.. or throw it on a roof.. or somewhere the T's have no chance to pick it up from.

As i said.. by that logic the T's should be allowed to take advantage of planting the bomb somewhere the CT's have a hard time getting to or defusing from... since the ability for a T to find a spot to plant the bomb thats hard to find or get to or defuse at is just as realistic as a CT throwing the bomb in the water to prevent a T from getting it.

The gentleman has a point.

I believe it's alright for the CT's to move the bomb to a better location for them to defend it, but I don't think it should be legal for them to move it to a spot unreachable by the T's. As stated, I don't think Valve intended for the CT's to be able to move the bomb to the water on port without the T's having a way to get the bomb back, otherwise, there'd be places on almost every map where the CT's could move the bomb so the T's couldn't get it.

Yes, there are boxes where you'd have to double boost or something to get up there and get it, but at least that's feasible. There is NO rescuing the bomb from the water. And that's the only map where the world makes it IMPOSSIBLE to retrieve the bomb.

I think you brought up the key issue. The ability of the CTs to move the bomb isn't in question, its what they decided to do with it. Moving the bomb to a more defendable location is a good strategy and parallels the Ts planting in a location that they can defend. Conversely, the Ts planting in locations that cannot be defused is analogous to CTs relocating the bomb to places unreachable by the Ts.
Although I cant really see this being an issue all that often (prob 99% of the time if the bomb is in the water its because a T got shot running for the boat) I still feel that it shouldn't be allowed.

**Keiron** · 07-18-08, 03:20 PM

It depends on how you look at the situation and will be a debatable topic until some of these issues are resolved.

For me, moving the bomb where you want it to is not as easy as it sounds and sometimes you move it outside of play and I've seen it happen on other maps besides Port. But those instances are also rare because of the way we usually play things and just depends on how you get the bomb to react when you try to move it. I've seen it been moved to small cracks that are impossible for the Ts to reach, and it is usually by accident because the CTs were just trying to move it to a better location to defend it at.

That being said, moving the bomb to an inaccessible location is different, in my eyes at least, than defusing through a train or the walls on Dust2, or planting the bomb in the water on Inferno. If the bomb is moved to an spot the Ts can't reach that is 1) the Ts fault for letting the CTs the ability to move it out of play to begin with and 2) The Ts can still win by eliminating all the CTs which I have seen done a number of times because the CTs act stupid and actively try to hunt down the remaining T(s) as if it was DM server or something.

When you plant the bomb in the water in Inferno, you are really crippling the CTs because in some cases the fish make it impossible to defuse even after the Ts are dead. Granted it doesn't always happen that way, but it happens a lot, more so I'd say than CTs throwing the bomb out of play (given that people actually plant in the water when it was allowed, and some people still do...).

Defusing through the wall, or through a train, is a glitch that hasn't been fixed for who knows what reason, but it is a glitch nonetheless, which is why you can't open doors or hit/use other objects through walls (lightswitch on militia, pretty sure you can't hit that through the wall, the original militia, been a while since I tried it though so I don't remember). We don't allow the use of glitches or exploits, so I can see this easily being something we shouldn't allow.

As someone already stated, if they didn't intend for the bomb to moved as it is, they would have changed the way they allowed you to interact with bomb or move it at all. Maybe it's just me, but I see this as 2 separate issues really and don't think it is an issue for people to move the bomb out of play. I don't like it though because it is a bit lame and not as challenging since you just need to find a good hiding spot and survive the rest of the round. I've done it before though since it is usually a good way to try to get a win for the team, but it never a guaranteed win.

**voLcanasm** · 07-18-08, 07:44 PM

i think its ok for a CT to move the bomb anywhere BUT where it is out of play, so I agree putting the bomb in water on port is a bannable offense

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