Thread: For Kraker

but no one argues about it. thats why should just go play dod.
cmon guys lets go play dod.

I agree with Kraker. There is no hard or easy side for de_maps. Yes you may say the Terrorists are burdened with objectives and CTs can just camp out the bomb sites, but that doesn't mean with the right skill a T-side could completely roll the CTs. I truely believe if you watched a match between equally skilled BOTS that the matches would come out even....CTs winning half and Ts winning half. That's what your saying right Guyver? That with teams that are equally matched the CT side will win 100% of the time? I don't think so...

Originally Posted by Guyver

Most de_ maps are the hard side...T's have the burden of objectives. Just like CT's have burden of objectives on hostage maps.

In that poll the majority of TPG'ers thought that T's have the harder side....but I guess they're all wrong, and you're right...right?


You were stripped of every position you held here, because you can't hold your tongue....but again....I guess it's everybody else and not you...right?

You are right guyver...man, never thought of it that way. If only counter strike would create a way to win without planting the bomb or rescuing the hostages...I mean, if only there was another objective to pursue, then i guess i would be right. But since there aint, you win....

And I said i played the admin roll well...the face that i ran my mouth here had nothing to do with me being an admin, and admining the servers.



God when you talk its like dudes balls slapping together constantly....

Originally Posted by Mr_Blonde_OPS

I agree with Kraker. There is no hard or easy side for de_maps. Yes you may say the Terrorists are burdened with objectives and CTs can just camp out the bomb sites, but that doesn't mean with the right skill a T-side could completely roll the CTs. I truely believe if you watched a match between equally skilled BOTS that the matches would come out even....CTs winning half and Ts winning half. That's what your saying right Guyver? That with teams that are equally matched the CT side will win 100% of the time? I don't think so...

Why is this sooooo fucking hard to understand....I seriously dont get it....

Did this seriously turn into into this old argument?

There are a select few maps where CTs might be considered the "easy" side and we don't really ever play those maps (de_tides and alamo come to mind). The rest depend on the makeup of the team.

Regs typically don't join, or shouldn't be joining, the T side because it's the "hard" side. Regs join the T side to ensure the teamplay aspect of T gets done in the making of calls and making the calls work. Non-regs might not know the calls and/or won't follow the calls. You could perhaps say the T side (on de maps) is more burdersome because its the objective side but that doesn't make it the "easy" side, especially with a T team full of regs where calls are essentially second nature to them.

However, I do agree with what Kraker observed. I find it odd that anyone would deny that the switching over of a top fragger isn't going to have any effect on the course of the rest of the map, that's why they were switched over or went over on their own in the first place. There are numerous players that run on our servers that, when switched, turn things around for the other team. It affects the team they switched over from as they now have to make up for the calls per round that the player was getting and it affects the team they switched over to as they now don't have to worry about that players and can rely on him to get more frags for their team.

uhhh last i check sosiego, t's go A every time on tides and win 15-0. at least that was how it was the last 20x i played that map... so not sure i'd call that a "ct sided" map...

but yea, the top fragger switching thing is often too much btw. it's like not only do you lose $100, but the other team gains $100. so it's a $200 swing. (assuming the top fragger is a legitimately good player, and not some guy that just got lucky the last 5 rounds). often times it's really too big of a switch.

i'm sure we've all seen a team that's 2-10 get the other teams top player and have it end something like 15-13 (meaning the team that lost the player gets pounded 13 of the next 16 rounds... yea... fun times...)... which incidentally, seems to be exacty what happened here.

and players, maps, money, etc. are all factors in difficulty. you can't define difficulty by just one of them. a map may be slanted one way or another, but an opposing slant by money or player skill can either right it or overcorrect. to say css maps aren't slanted one way or another is awfully complimentary don't you think? i mean that's literally saying that a bunch of modders were somehow able to create a series of perfectly even/perfectly balanced maps... emphasis on perfect... exactly 0.000 bias... yea right... you can't seriously beleive in that kind of perfection... the best industry can't even make a perfectly round ball.

oh one more thing - the teams were stacked. that's one hell of a T team

Originally Posted by Kraker Jak

Ok, so one player gets moved, who was not your strat caller, to CT, and then CT's start winning...explain to me how that it is not defined by the players?

We started winning because we were all realizing we were sucking and having another, skilled player who uses their mic a lot to communicate helped. Our problem was mostly over rotating or not rotating soon enough when we needed to for the calls the Ts were making.

I think we would have gotten there eventually but it would have just taken longer. The player switch just helped since as I said, more people that communicate the better.

It does help. Ts didn't loose their strat caller, and we didn't really gain a leader, but we had a number of regs who know what to do, we were just not all doing it right as I said and would probably have gotten there later without the switch.

And I agree, there is no hard or easy side. It might be harder or easier, because of the objectives for the maps, however that isn't the only thing to be taken into account so it can't be used alone. Players skills and strategies also come into play.

Take Italy for example. A cs map that most people would say is a T sided map. A CT team with a good strategy and good players will destroy the Ts. I've seen it done many times, often to the point that Ts will be forced to camp the small hostage room and even then they can be easy to take down. On the other hand if you have a smart T team, you'll have your team watching all the major choke points and you can destroy the CTs before they really get close to the hostages.

Lets also look at Chateau since it was mentioned in this thread. This is a good map that is balanced despite what people think. CTs do have the advantage of position at A and can hear B easily sure. However, they easily countered by the Ts with proper nade usage, flash bangs, and players holding their positions. The map itself leans more towards the CTs favor at first but once the Ts have a site, it is usually pretty easy for them to hold the site after the bomb has been planted.

Take another CS map like Assault. It is heavily sided in the Ts favor, but that doesn't mean CTs can't win or kick ass either, it just requires a lot more work, usually more than people want to do or harder to get everyone to do, which is why we don't play it.

Look at Aztec. The map is a lot more difficult for Ts since their 2 main assault points are the bridge to A or the double doors to B with water being a dangerous and longer route to either. CTs can nade stack either side and destroy a rush easily. With the proper set up though, Ts can win usually with smart calls such as delayed rushes and/or proper use of nades/flashes/smokes.

The point is, it is not just the maps that makes any one side more difficult than the other, players and strategies also make a huge impact on the maps. Of course the biggest thing is communication and teamwork. That is why we have trouble on a number of maps for a number of different reasons, we play the game it is meant to be played and that actually makes it more difficult for everything to be 100% even every time, all the time. It just won't happen.