Thread: For Kraker

Originally Posted by (2)manno

uhhh last i check sosiego, t's go A every time on tides and win 15-0. at least that was how it was the last 20x i played that map... so not sure i'd call that a "ct sided" map...

Different experiences with the map, I guess. Every time I've played it, CTs have whomped on T's.

Originally Posted by (2)manno

to say css maps aren't slanted one way or another is awfully complimentary don't you think? i mean that's literally saying that a bunch of modders were somehow able to create a series of perfectly even/perfectly balanced maps... emphasis on perfect... exactly 0.000 bias... yea right... you can't seriously beleive in that kind of perfection... the best industry can't even make a perfectly round ball.

By no means did I mean that there isn't some slant. However, I don't think it's anything to the degree that people make it out to be with exception to a few maps; especially outside of scrims (I'd add de_nuke and de_cpl_mill to list of more CT sided maps in regards to scrims).

not you sos, i didn't mean intimate that you thought that. i was referring to the people who say there is no such thing as a map side... which i find pretty amazing. here's a pretty rough way i see it:

[Tside factors / CTside factors] = Difficulty coefficient

Tside factors [(T mapdifficulty x 2.5) + (T teamskill x 5) + (Money x 1.5) + (Callmade x 3)]
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CTside factors [(CT mapdifficulty x 2.5) + (CT teamskill x 5) + (Money x 1.5) + (Callmade x 3)]

Where base ratings are 1-5, 5 being highest. Mapdifficulty rank is also 1-5 with 1 being most difficult. Coefficients >1 equal a higher probabilty T's will win. <1 CT's are more likely to win.

Go ahead, plug n play, you'll see this pretty much predicts the outcome. But the point is to illustrate that map side does play a role. Pretending it doesn't is like sticking your head in the sand...

ps - if you've had a tough time on tides as a t, you've just being going to the wrong site.

There is such a thing as hard side on maps. In essence the deciding factor will be your TEAM and how they PLAY together, hence TEAMPLAYERS...TTP was built around CSS for this reason..

Now shut your cock holster Kracker, you stink like shit...

Yes the maps may be slanted a little towards one side, but that does not make it easier. There are still ways to counter-act the advantages of each side.

2manno got it closest, i think. If only you could factor in luck, then it would be perfect...

@ manno - just curious here, but how the hell do you measure team skill? seriously there is no way possible in which you can come up with a formula or system that could give a legitimate value to team skill. It is an immeasurable quantity and changes based on who is evaluating the teams.

Skill with shooting a gun still doesn't make a lick of a difference if you don't have someone making skilled and well executed calls.

Originally Posted by DancingCorpse

Skill with shooting a gun still doesn't make a lick of a difference if you don't have someone making skilled and well executed calls.

Dunno, I've seen plenty of maps go way in favor of one side, despite that side's dis-organization, simply because of a few skilled shooters wiping out a good portion of the opposing team. Is it the end all? No. But if neither side is full of communication it will come down to skilled shooters.


I personally see both sides of this argument (if you can even call it that),

Most maps are balanced enough that the team who works together the most will win. Or the team who can get and maintain the momentum to ride their way to 15. Even a skilled team of players can get rolled if the other side communicates and adjusts to the opposition. This usually implies a balanced map.

Some maps, however, do lend favor to one side. Does it mean that side will always win? No. But if you were to put two equally matched teams together, there is one side that has a tendency to win. Just go look at the HLstats for TPG alone, and go to the maps section. You will see there are some maps that by a margin of 10% weigh in one sides favor. (if you want the most extreme example look at assault, or for a map that has lots of play under it's belt, piranesi)

You also have to account for some players perception. Some players do have a harder time on one side or another, and may consider the other the 'easy' side even if generally is not.

Edit: and to add to this, some of these maps have a favor to one teams win% despite lots of regulars and skilled players always going to what is considered the 'hard side'.