For Kraker

**Fajita!** · 09-10-10, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by DancingCorpse

Skill with shooting a gun still doesn't make a lick of a difference if you don't have someone making skilled and well executed calls.

I also disagree. Good calls help, but I've had plenty of times where disorganized/basic call teams roll over the map.

On another note, it's my opinion that any call that isn't "Go a" T side nesi shouldn't be made. B calls on that map are pointless.

**(2)manno** · 09-11-10, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by DuDDy

@ manno - just curious here, but how the hell do you measure team skill? seriously there is no way possible in which you can come up with a formula or system that could give a legitimate value to team skill. It is an immeasurable quantity and changes based on who is evaluating the teams.

well the formula was really for illustrative purposes, but i suppose given enough data you could reliably factor team skill.

for example, if you took everyone on tpg that played for >30 days time time ranked by kpd, win %, and some other factors to create a "skill" index, it would probably be close enough for a working model. but in the real world, you're right, teams have too many 'new' players/unknown quantities to be able to easily look at a roster and sum their relative skill up by saying a firm number like, 4.25 or 2, or whatever.

but - i do have faith in the simple powers of human estimation. if you play enough (and lord knows i play too much), you can usually (used loosely, as in more than 50% of the time) look at two teams and take a good stab at which one is better/who has better players.

**CivilWars** · 09-11-10, 11:24 AM

If there is no easier/harder side why when you see most scrims are the CTs winning the majority of the rounds? Why do you hope to only lose 0-3 as CT, and then steal one more than you lost as a T?

IMO if you could somehow engineer it so that 10 Pimps could play 10 Pimps, or 10 Vafas a side, or 10 whomever, then the 10 Vafas on CT side would win more than the 10 Vafas on T side in most cases. Players/teams/strats can all overcome this, but there is imbalance in every map, and some more than others.

**Fajita!** · 09-11-10, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

If there is no easier/harder side why when you see most scrims are the CTs winning the majority of the rounds? Why do you hope to only lose 0-3 as CT, and then steal one more than you lost as a T?

IMO if you could somehow engineer it so that 10 Pimps could play 10 Pimps, or 10 Vafas a side, or 10 whomever, then the 10 Vafas on CT side would win more than the 10 Vafas on T side in most cases. Players/teams/strats can all overcome this, but there is imbalance in every map, and some more than others.

Yea, some maps are one sided. Train, Nuke, and Inferno are the big competitive maps that you want to win 10+ as a CT, and that might now even be enough.

**Irishrice** · 09-12-10, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

If there is no easier/harder side why when you see most scrims are the CTs winning the majority of the rounds? Why do you hope to only lose 0-3 as CT, and then steal one more than you lost as a T?

IMO if you could somehow engineer it so that 10 Pimps could play 10 Pimps, or 10 Vafas a side, or 10 whomever, then the 10 Vafas on CT side would win more than the 10 Vafas on T side in most cases. Players/teams/strats can all overcome this, but there is imbalance in every map, and some more than others.

Correct.. I have seen this very thing in the competitive leagues i have joined.. Such maps include mill, inferno, season, etc. Inferno if we could win 5 to 6 on the t side we had the match.. That is why i believe there is hard side easy side. But the teamplay is the major factor in loosing. Now hard side easy side with an 11v11 i dont really know. Is that another debate topic? Kraker? Guyver?

**Kraker Jak** · 09-13-10, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

If there is no easier/harder side why when you see most scrims are the CTs winning the majority of the rounds? Why do you hope to only lose 0-3 as CT, and then steal one more than you lost as a T?

IMO if you could somehow engineer it so that 10 Pimps could play 10 Pimps, or 10 Vafas a side, or 10 whomever, then the 10 Vafas on CT side would win more than the 10 Vafas on T side in most cases. Players/teams/strats can all overcome this, but there is imbalance in every map, and some more than others.

But see, because players/teams/strats are a factor, you can not validate saying that simply where you spawn, or how a map is, can determine difficulty...that is my point. Its a flawed srtatement, too many variables...

**Toker** · 09-13-10, 04:21 PM

Shall I post a screenie of 1 to 2 regs (somebody else and I) raping Ts on Inferno. Every T was a regular name you would recognize and most were really good players.

Yes, the map sides make a difference. You guys (Kraker and Civil) are saying the same thing, basically, Civil is correct in saying that certain maps do give advantages to certain sides.