weapon balance

**snuggans** · 02-02-06, 01:15 PM

statistic classes...
sigh
randomness, stackage, and individual situations MAKE up the whole pie.
when talking about superiority as a solid fact, you cannot assume anything until you have cut into the pie and examined the ingredients. cant state superiority as a fact from stats, but you can say its generally used better, its simple lets say 90% of the forum guys say the astros are the best team, but 10% say they are not, just because the higher 'SK' is 90%, the astros are the best team? please dont make me use dumb analogies. it is an opinion just because the weapon can be defeated by 'inferior' ones and the fact that the so called superiority is ever changing according to the situation, millions of them which finally make up the stats you are talking about. but yes saying something like "X has the best averages" is a fact, because the stat site says so. like i said everything you have said is true except for what you MAKE out of the stats. and what you make is an opinion of the weapon being superior, it wont be a fact. thats all im saying

**...bigdog...** · 02-02-06, 01:23 PM

wrong. Just flat out wrong.

And you will know this when you get into college, and maybe take some stats classes.

in a sample size of 20000 or more, individual instances and personal experiences don't matter. Not one bit.

If I'm going to say that one drug is better than another drug, I'm going to look at survival benefits, side effects, and tolerance levels in a study of 1000's of people.

If I find that the survival benefit of one drug is 2X as long as another drug......the first drug is BETTER. REgardless of whether your grandma took the first drug and died of it. regardless of whether 25% of the people that took it died anyway.

Regardless if 50% of people taking the other drug lived....

If drug A has a survival rate of 75%, and drug B has a rate of 50%, drug A is SUPERIOR to DRUG B.

You're just trying to pick fights now. Arguing with a Ph.D. about statistics that you don't even understand, and refusing to listen.

And if you're not trying to pick fights, then you're just stupid.

So which one is it?

It is not an opinion as to if drug A or B is better.....so why do you think it would be for weapons A over weapon B?

**snuggans** · 02-02-06, 01:46 PM

weapons and drugs are different.
use some common sense. drugs dont shoot each other.
weapons fight against each other.
you just totally missed that concept.
thats why superiority concept is different from drugs.
its an opinion.

**snuggans** · 02-02-06, 01:47 PM

imma stop now cause i dont want to argue anymore with a phd. word up

**Mr.Jello** · 02-02-06, 02:31 PM

I got a phd in kickin yo ass.

**...bigdog...** · 02-02-06, 02:39 PM

weapons, drugs, apples, oranges, monkeys, martians....none of that matters.

it's value vs. value, assuming the sample is normally distributed (and in this sample, with it's size.....it is), one value being significantly higher than another value, especially in weapons of the same class and purpose (such as that for the standard issue pistols for both teams), would mean that, statistically (or on the average, or however you want to say it to make you happy) one weapon has an advantage over the other.

If one ____ has an advantage over another ______, it is thus superior/more advantageous/better/whatever you want to call it to make you happy, as long as it means the better choice.

I'm not here to argue about which weapon choice is the best for anyone. Or to say that I like the m4 over the AK. Or anything about what I know I can do with any particular weapon against high and low skilled players.

I'm only saying, over and over again, that the USP is statistically a superior weapon to the glock, and that in the face of such a disparity between the two standard issue pistols (things that should stand together, as most of the other weapons do), it appears the USP/Glock ratio in unbalanced in the CT's favor.

I base this assumption on seeing most every other T/CT exclusive weapon being similar with it's opposing force's counterpart (such as the mac10 vs. tmp, or the gs3g1 vs sg550, or the assault rifles and smg groupings for both sides).

Taken at that, it appears that the only real weapon to be so far out of balance would be the glock/USP. This is especially strange, since it is not a "choice" weapon, but a standard issue, and one would assume that, above all weapons, the standard issue pistol should be fair to both sides.

A similar situation would arise if for some odd reason, the T's had a stronger knife, compared to the CT's. Since both sides are equipped with a knife standard, it doesn't make sense to give one side a "better" knife.

and if you continue to say things like "weapons and drugs are different", "use some commone sense", and "you just totally missed the concept, bigdog".........I'm going to to continue to fight back. That shit is offensive, and not helping anything.

stats are stats. And with the size that we got......it's fun to see what they tell us.

What would really settle this issue would be to see, in a stand up fight for 10,000+ rounds of glocks vs USP's, which team wins, which does the most damage, which has the most kills, accuracy, etc.

That would be the fairest judgement in comparing the weapons, but....again......we have enough data to still make a valid assumption that the good money is bet on the USP armed pistoler.

**...bigdog...** · 02-02-06, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.Jello

I got a phd in kickin yo ass.

so does your mother.

**Dome** · 02-02-06, 06:14 PM

I agree that there is enough data to compare differant weapons.

There will always be players that are more skilled than the global average with a particular weapon they have learned to use effectively. However our database would include any such players. My only concern would be that the data includes hacker stats. But even then there is enough data that those are overshadowed by the legitimate ones. One could always come up with a +/- % to account for those or even remove known hacker stats from the database if it were really necessary.

I have also pondered the thinking of the game designers when they chose to provide unequal standard issue pistols . What's even more perplexing is why they did the same thing in CS:S. They obviously had similar data from CS and knew of the disparity between the two weapons.

I would think that each player would have the same pistol. It wouldn't even have to be the glock or the USP. At the time they began design of the game those weapons were popular, but times have changed and it would of been nice if they changed the game to reflect it.

**...bigdog...** · 02-02-06, 08:45 PM

yeah.....you'd think game designers that came out with some of the most original and ground breaking game play elements and content back in the mid and late 90's would continue to do so...

cough....id...ahem....valve.......cough...