Do we need to remove explosives?

**GreenGod** · 02-17-14, 12:57 AM

Found this relevant post on Reddit. Not say I agree or disagree, but it is a well reasoned argument:

Removing airdrops removes a very fun part of the game, I wouldn't suggest it.

Also, looking at the cost to make C4, it's 15 explosives, it's 691 sulfur, 616 charcoal, 158 metal frags, 60 animal fat, and 35 cloth (in the most base materials). This is an extremely high resource cost item, not to mention you have to get lucky enough to find explosives in an airdrop to learn the recipe.

The problem is that no matter what you do, making c4 "rare" will mean that you are making any players who get ahead on your server become the gods of your server. If normal players can find c4 drops, they can at least squirrel them away somewhere and make an attack on server kingpins when they get the opportunity. If you lock C4 behind a bunch of doors to these players, they'll be shot down every time they come close to being able to challenge the already settled in players.

Making C4 "rare" sounds like a good idea, but it just ends up hurting the people you're trying to help in the long run.

How do I make c4 rare on my server? : playrust

**SpecOpsScott** · 02-17-14, 07:19 AM

Im still on the fence about it. I know that if i was sitting on 20 C4, i wouldn't be blowing the doors off every base i come across, hell i would probably lose it before using it. But i don't think my attitude it typical. Evidenced by the point made pre-wipe, he who exploits the c4 rules the server. Compound that with some degree of skill, hours that accommodate uncontested raiding and there ya go, instant rage.

I guess i am leaning towards removing the explosive component, but allowing for C4 in animal drops, crates and airdrops. Everyone can farm Radimals, and Rad towns so imo it helps to balance the distribution. It forces people to get out into the map rather than stay home, cook C4 and raid during off peak.

**Demonofspeed07** · 02-17-14, 07:22 AM

I think it would interesting to see how people raid secured bases with limited or no c4.

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**SpecOpsScott** · 02-17-14, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Demonofspeed07

I think it would interesting to see how people raid secured bases with limited or no c4.

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Well, i can tell you one side effect of the large amount of C4, small hidden shacks farther and farther off the grid. There is no incentive to build up, which i thought was fun, but only the new guys who haven't been butt slammed yet build big awesome wood or metal bases. Maybe the limitation of explosives would foster some of that big ole base building.

**Demonofspeed07** · 02-17-14, 07:54 AM

Yes I agree, it would be nice to be able to build big. But if there was no c4 at all the people would build right next to towns or on the roads. Which isn't a problem with our low population server, but if we were to grow it would be annoying.

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**GreenGod** · 02-17-14, 11:19 AM

I like this line of reasoning. If C4 is very rare but accessible in drops all should be able to get a few (1-3) which will add to the overall fun while hoarding multiple stacks (ie, 10+) becomes unlikely. However the problem is: what the hell do we do with all the sulfur and charcoal now? The mobs (which we'll be grinding to get a few a C4) already drop shitloads of ammo and we'd rather use the frags to make bases and guns anyway than make ammo with it. My guess, people will make hundreds of grenades.

I'd like to vote no-craft yes-drops but if we're just making demolition expensive via grenades why not just increase the cost of C4?

C4 has been getting more rare/expensive since they added it. Obviously if we're having this discussion they need to keep tweaking. We can jump the curve a bit and do what we think is right but ultimately I think Facepunch will solve this problem best since they have a much bigger data set (shit tonnes of feedback). In fact I'm not convinced that they haven't already fixed it by increasing the price as they did.

Perhaps we have the separate problem of too many air drops being contested by by too few players. By my estimate, a three crate drop (the right kind of crates assured) will get you ~1-4 plus some explosives. A couple of those (plus two research kits) and you're on your way to C4 dominance.

Three ways to get C4:

*mob/crate drops - very rare, blueprint even more so. Hours of grinding will get you a couple C4 at most I think.
*air drops - distance/finding them + player contested = should require plenty of luck I think. Does it?
*craft - 300 gunpowder (600 sulfur/charcoal), 30 LGF (60 fat+30 cloth), 75 sulfur, 150 metal frags, 5 leather and a flare. Believe it or not, the animal fat is usually the limiter here. Not as easy to get hundreds of animal fat as you might think.

My opinion: Mobs/crates seem fine. Crafting is close to the right cost if not already fine. Airdrops are too easy to obtain.

**SovietDooM** · 02-17-14, 12:34 PM

I don't believe we can increase the cost of C4 and at this time, explosives have been dropping and are likely researched. When you allow C4 crafting your are going to get people on during times when no one is on and they can stock up on all the parts needed.

Any C4 for crafting results in this given our servers base population.

**Demonofspeed07** · 02-17-14, 12:44 PM

So.... C4 should be like research kits are now? Noncraftable, not in air drops, rare but in animal drops. That's what I think.

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**SpecOpsScott** · 02-17-14, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Demonofspeed07

So.... C4 should be like research kits are now? Noncraftable, not in air drops, rare but in animal drops. That's what I think.

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If you remove "Explosives", C4 becomes uncraftable, but still shows up in air drops, crates and on Radimals. I support keeping the C4 in all the drops, just raising the number of people needed for an air drop.