Faith in humanity levels dropping

**CivilWars** · 01-20-12, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

This is a very simplistic outlook, and it's wrong. Of course it matters who you are. If my wife's friends called each other whores, they wouldn't be offending each other. If a random stranger said it, it would certainly be offensive. I remember on this forum someone using a pejorative term for Marine non-infantry, and it was pointed out, correctly, that if you weren't in the marines, you shouldn't be using that word, because it has a different meaning coming from someone outside of the group than it does when it comes from the inside.
http://www.teamplayergaming.com/news...trusted-5.html

This article isn't about black people using the word, it's about a bunch of white people using the word to describe a holiday celebrating a black American. Of course that's racist.

Whatever motivation some black people have using this word, it isn't hate, and in it's street slang usage, it's used in a completely different context than it is when, say the people in the original post were using it.

Ok, so by that logic if you can call your wife/sister/mother a whore, as long as she isn't offended, then it isn't offensive, agreed? If you agree with that then does it also mean that if I call my wife/sister/mother an N, and she isn't offended, then that word isn't offensive in that connotation either?

Oversimplified? Maybe, but no more so than saying that EVERY time anyone, anyone white, or anyone not ______ use it then it MUST be racist.

**CivilWars** · 01-20-12, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Xavsnipe

it´s quite simple....whoever uses this word amongst said group of people is being blatantly stupid...the use of this word is most common among the youths of this ethnicity right?? So...if whoever uses this word constantly in reference to another black person..that makes that person stupid...so if it´s one of the most popular words to use among said group of people...that makes said group of people extremely stupid (I would attribute the use of the word to mostly young people though).

So what I´m saying is...if there are 30 million black people in the U.S. and 10 million black people in the U.S. commonly use this word with each other...that makes 10 million black people extremely stupid.

So now you are calling black people stupid? You racist. :P

I am only joking. I know Xav is not calling black people stupid, and I don't believe that he is a racist, or is being racist. I actually agree with what he is saying here.

**WickedTribe** · 01-20-12, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

I guess what I don't get is how a word can be the single most offensive word to a group of people, be it any word to any group, and yet be one of the most popular words to use among said group of people. If it is offensive to you then don't use it. Otherwise you can't blame someone else for being "ignorant' OR "stupid".

I think that the use of it by black people is an attempt to "own" the word, taking power away from the racists that started the use of it. It's also not the exact same word, but a derivative that's used in this context.

And for the record, "offensive" isn't how I'd describe it's effects on me. I don't find it offensive at all, being neither from the groups who historically used it, or who had it used to describe them. The effect that hearing this word from someone has on me is simply for me to immediately discount them as ignorant, hateful and yes, probably also stupid. Generally though, by the time that I've heard this word used by someone, they've already given me enough evidence of their ignorance, stupidity and unhappiness that it's not a big shock.

**CivilWars** · 01-20-12, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

And for the record, "offensive" isn't how I'd describe it's effects on me. I don't find it offensive at all, being neither from the groups who historically used it, or who had it used to describe them. The effect that hearing this word from someone has on me is simply for me to immediately discount them as ignorant, hateful and yes, probably also stupid. Generally though, by the time that I've heard this word used by someone, they've already given me enough evidence of their ignorance, stupidity and unhappiness that it's not a big shock.

This I mostly agree with. I never claimed that someone using the word was likely to discover the cure for cancer tomorrow. I do disagree that if used by someone not of the group that it is "racist". Stupid, yes, racist, maybe, but not always.

**WickedTribe** · 01-20-12, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Ok, so by that logic if you can call your wife/sister/mother a whore, as long as she isn't offended, then it isn't offensive, agreed? If you agree with that then does it also mean that if I call my wife/sister/mother an N, and she isn't offended, then that word isn't offensive in that connotation either?

Oversimplified? Maybe, but no more so than saying that EVERY time anyone, anyone white, or anyone not ______ use it then it MUST be racist.

My wife, like most people, knows when someone is using a word to be offensive, and when they're not. If her friends called her a whore, it wouldn't be offensive, because it wouldn't be intended as an offense. If some stranger on the street used it, it's unlikely that they'd mean it in the same, jovial tone that her friends would.

Similarly, the word in question, when used by black people as a slang term, doesn't have the same meaning, by the user, as it does when white people use it. Black people are certainly capable of using it as a hate word, and then it becomes just that. Similarly, it's possible for a white person to use the slang term in exactly the same context as a black person. Of course, the word is such a minefield that most of these people would avoid using it so that it's not misread as offensive. This leaves only one group of white people using the word - hateful, racist, ignorant people, who use the word, knowing full well that it will be viewed as offensive, hateful and racist.

Language, like life, is subtle.

**CivilWars** · 01-20-12, 11:06 AM

But you just contradicted yourself. First you say:

Similarly, it's possible for a white person to use the slang term in exactly the same context as a black person.

Then follow it up with:

This leaves only one group of white people using the word - hateful, racist, ignorant people, who use the word, knowing full well that it will be viewed as offensive, hateful and racist.

I can agree with the ignorant part. I don't know that I agree with the hateful and racist part. I have known white people that have used the word in the exact same fashion as the majority of black people use it. Do I think that qualifies them as ignorant? Yes. If they understood what the word truly stands for then they wouldn't use it. Do I think it makes them racist or hateful? No.

While I don't totally agree with some of the crazy stuff DG is spewing I agree that social upbringing does play a part. Hell, just look at the topic we have about some school not being able to use a cougar as their mascot as it might offend middle-aged women. Do I think that is on the same level as the N word? No, but it is analogy of how different words can have different meanings to different people. Just like I can agree with you that your wife's best friend calling her a slut is totally different than me calling her a slut when I don't know her (I am not calling your wife a slut by the way). By the same token I think a white guy can say to his friend, "What up my N?" and not mean it in a hurtful or racist way, OR he can say, "I hate Ns." and it is 100% hurtful and racist.

**Alundil** · 01-20-12, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

I think that the use of it by black people is an attempt to "own" the word, taking power away from the racists that started the use of it. It's also not the exact same word, but a derivative that's used in this context.

And for the record, "offensive" isn't how I'd describe it's effects on me. I don't find it offensive at all, being neither from the groups who historically used it, or who had it used to describe them. The effect that hearing this word from someone has on me is simply for me to immediately discount them as ignorant, hateful and yes, probably also stupid. Generally though, by the time that I've heard this word used by someone, they've already given me enough evidence of their ignorance, stupidity and unhappiness that it's not a big shock.

This.

Sent via highly charged bolt of electricity.

**Alundil** · 01-20-12, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

By the same token I think a white guy can say to his friend, "What up my N?" and not mean it in a hurtful or racist way, OR he can say, "I hate Ns." and it is 100% hurtful and racist.

all cases = stupid/ignorant and would people I'd not associate with for aforementioned stupidity.

Sent via highly charged bolt of electricity.