Thread: Bad Moon Rising

Answers.

There aren't any good ones.




For any nation affected by the financial crisis, for more than 3 years now, this is the primary friction.

Cheers,


ÆtheLove

If the house of cards ever completely comes down china wont be able to vacuum up anything. There entire economy is based off of other countries buying their shit. Once that stops they have nothing.

Originally Posted by Cebelius

I love Europe... I can't wait until the house of cards collapses completely and China starts vacuuming up the pieces.

Our house of cards abuts theirs. The same question not being answered in that interview is also not being answered in the US.

Cheers,


ÆtheLove

Originally Posted by Cebelius

While that is somewhat true the same rules don't apply in the states. Europeans have a long and illustrious history of killing each other for any and every reason. The US is not comprised of once sovereign nations (with a few... VERY notable exceptions. :P ) and even if the entire union dissolved tomorrow I doubt you'd see warfare between the resulting states anytime soon.

While it is also true that our banking system is ensnared with some of the same problems plaguing Europe, our economy is still much better able to absorb shocks and while is it certainly on the decline, the will to WORK in the US is much stronger than it is anywhere in Europe with the possible exception of Germany.

Our history also does not chain us to socialism and a dependence on Government to handle every little problem... Europeans historically are chained to their governments... even the Magna Carta was essentially just the functionaries telling the executive to fuck off. It provided no real changes to the plebs... power just shifted within an already well-defined elite.

When Europe collapses it's much more likely to go to war with itself, provided any of the constituent countries can scrape together enough of a military to manage the effort. It'll be amusing to see who winds up with what.

As for China vacuuming up the pieces... whether or not we are indebted to them has nothing to do with their ability to harness their own material and personnel resources to initiate conquest. Let's not forget that theirs is not exactly a volunteer society. The rules one might expect to hamper a democracy do not in any way constrain the government of China. Once we stop buying their shit they'll still have all the resources they need to expand militarily throughout Asia, especially as our own forces sustain what is essentially a global withdrawal. Even Obama is smart enough to realize that the one area he can't pull out of is Asia-Pac.

In all fairness the US hasn't been around nearly as long. Taking that in mind i can think of one time that the union dissolved and it resulted in a 4 year long war. Kinda thoughs a kink in the whole thing dont it?

Originally Posted by Cebelius

While that is somewhat true the same rules don't apply in the states. Europeans have a long and illustrious history of killing each other for any and every reason.

I disagree with the way you read the history, but that's not this thread.

My point was that Ireland is a particularly poignant example of the public being put on the spot by their own government to make good on massive private speculative losses. The proper outcome of risk-taking that doesn't pay off is that the risk takers lose. That's not what happened in Ireland. That's not what happened in lots of places, including the US.

The question from this journalist was "How is it good for the Irish people to spend the next ten years of their taxes paying off the failed investments and unsecured creditors of bankrupt private investment firms, rather than using the public money of the Irish to make public investments in Ireland?"

The answer given was: "Um, it's complicated." The answer everyone knows is correct is: "It's not."

An interesting counter-example is Iceland, where officials can answer, "Public funds were not used to bail out failed investment banks. Unsecured creditors are called that for a reason, and they are welcome to use the court system but not welcome to public money."

Cheers,


AetheLove

Originally Posted by Cebelius

The war over slavery and states rights does not have an analogy in European combat, comprised principally of waves of conquest and power plays revolving around aristocratic succession.

The Irish do indeed have a valid question to ask of their legislators, just as WE SHOULD ask similar questions of our government.

However the European Union was a blatant power grab by a bloc that desperately wanted to remain relevant in the face of superior neighbors both to the north and overseas and it did not take into account the bald fact that Europeans as a bloc are not in any real way united either by economic OR social policy. Such a disparate group welded together by treaties and a uniform currency was destined to fall into crisis.

As for bailing out private investors with public money... I'm with you. It shouldn't be done. The only exception I can even begin to understand would be support for an industry that provides the nation with critical defense infrastructure, which is why I support Airline subsidies. Without commercial fleets in place the military loses critical mobility in the event the shit really hits the fan. Partially supporting commercial fleets is much cheaper than maintaining planes exclusively for military use in case of emergency.

On the issue of supporting banks... yeah, no. Insofar as our government has bought or sold private company stock or lent money to private interests or even created stipends for art... it's a waste. Let the private demand shape the supply.

A war over states rights could very well be interpreted as a power play. However for the most part i agree with you.