And I thought prison WASN'T a country club?

**Knee of Justice** · 01-26-12, 06:51 PM

The hell is a "Chain Gain?"

**Red_Lizard2** · 01-27-12, 06:14 AM

Bit tired, and headed to bed so just going to drop these links off and come back in the morning/afternoon. It certainly doesn't sound like how some are trying to portray it here though:
Healthcare
Many in U.S. Prisons Lack Good Health Care - ABC News
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...house_doc.html

Food
Jail food better? Not to inmates / Inmates bark about lousy meals -- but, hey, it's prison!

**Red_Lizard2** · 01-27-12, 05:31 PM

Okay, now awake so can get more detailed. First off, if you read the SFgate article, you'll notice it is pointed out that the food isn't served to be less harsh/more harsh, as much as the choices for what to serve are to try and prevent riots happening in the prisons. They don't go into it very deep, nor am I any behavioral or diet expert, so can't tell you how it works, but apparently the prisons feel it works.

In terms of stricter prisons preventing recidivism, I haven't been able to find any data either way yet. The closest I could find was some study from Italy that found the rate went 1.3% when facing the risk of longer sentences if caught again, however those convicted of violent crimes didn't seem to care. If you can find some studies that point either way that stricter prisons make a difference, I'm willing to listen to the idea of making it stricter.

I'd also be curious to see how many homeless people are actually committing crimes so they can go to prison. I actually kind of doubt it, because being in the general population doesn't look to exactly be the greatest place in the world, compared to living outside of jail. Note that death row inmates are separated from the general population (I can think of a few good reasons why) so that makes it slightly better. Still, do you really want to stake your opinions on the words of the guy in your article? It sounds more like he is trying to brag and be a dick more then anything. I'm HIGHLY skeptical things are as great as he makes them.

**CivilWars** · 01-27-12, 05:39 PM

To your first point, if my choice is to eat Taco Bell or prison food I will choose Taco Bell every day. I know some may not like Taco Bell, but it is an analogy, so insert your food joint of choice. However, if my choices are the half of the Big Mac that someone didn't want and prison food I would bet that prison food would give it a run for its money.

As for homeless people, or anyone else, committing crimes with the intent to go to prison I would agree that they aren't. However, when faced with the choice of abiding to the law, and not having food/shelter/drugs//whatever, or committing a crime to get those things I would bet that the threat of prison is NOT a deterrent.

**Talkos** · 01-27-12, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

In terms of stricter prisons preventing recidivism, I haven't been able to find any data either way yet. The closest I could find was some study from Italy that found the rate went 1.3% when facing the risk of longer sentences if caught again, however those convicted of violent crimes didn't seem to care. If you can find some studies that point either way that stricter prisons make a difference, I'm willing to listen to the idea of making it stricter.

There have been a few cross country studies on recidivism. One might want to compare say the rates in Scandinavia to the US where their prisons are geared more towards rehabilitation and are very much the country clubs that so many seem to be railing against. Of course there are cultural implications, but the numbers that popped up from a search give about 35% vs 67% respectively. A surprisingly large gap and compelling argument.

**iLLusioN** · 01-27-12, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Talkos

There have been a few cross country studies on recidivism. One might want to compare say the rates in Scandinavia to the US where their prisons are geared more towards rehabilitation and are very much the country clubs that so many seem to be railing against. Of course there are cultural implications, but the numbers that popped up from a search give about 35% vs 67% respectively. A surprisingly large gap and compelling argument.

While that may be true there are other factors to consider such as % of population going to prison respectively between each country. If the US has 10% of their pop going to prison and Scandinavia 2%....I would think Scandinavia would come out ahead there. These are hypothetical numbers to prove a point, just to be clear.

I think you would also have to consider what people must do to be put into prison in both countries. If you have to do worse things(morally) to get into prison in Scandinavia than in the US, then the type of people that are going to do those things are probably going to be more likely to be repeat offenders.

**Guyver** · 01-27-12, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by DJ Mr. White

When have I done it maliciously?

sent from the temple of cthulu

LOL....do you really want me to show examples?

**Guyver** · 01-27-12, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by Knee of Justice

The hell is a "Chain Gain?"

Chain gang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

**Red_Lizard2** · 01-28-12, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

However, when faced with the choice of abiding to the law, and not having food/shelter/drugs//whatever, or committing a crime to get those things I would bet that the threat of prison is NOT a deterrent.

That is under the assumption though that they would not have access to those things already (and with drugs, one might argue they have too much access to that compared to prison =P). Shelter is the one that is the least likely to get outside of prison, Housing costs money, and its very likely (being homeless) you aren't going to be able to get enough money to rent a house. I'm not sure if the homeless can get government subsidies or if there is charities offering shelter/housing though.

With food I'd say it shouldn't be a major issue between food banks, soup kitchens, charities, and again just bugging people for money (though I don't believe everyone wants to do that either). Obviously those can run short, but usually not for such a long period of time that anyone should be starving to death on the streets. I've never been to a food bank so I can't say if the good is better or not granted.

**Affinity** · 01-30-12, 03:13 PM

The prison system is there to make money. If you make prison more appealing (i.e. letting drugs in, TV's, recreation) then people won't mind being there so much, right? If the incentive for jailers is to get more prisoners to make more money, why not make the incentive to going to jail a little bit better?

I think a lot of the points here are good ones. Jail is not as bad as being homeless. Unfortunately, it comes at the expense of $30,000 a year to keep someone locked up for a year... that is an undergraduate degree we could have paid for a decent citizen to use. Unprivatize the prison system, and stop locking up non-violent drug offenders for 10 years and we would have less of a "problem." I use quotations, because it's a problem for some, but it's money for the people that run them.

The U.S. has 6% of the world's population, but 25% of the world's prison population. That is an issue far greater than "our prisons are too nice". Jail sucks, dude.