Thread: No Spec-Work

(I was going to post this in the Art section but I want some non-art viewpoints on this as well and from my experience today this has the potential to get a bit heated... so I brought it here.)

So I have a buddy who's wife who's an art/design person. That's her job/chosen profession, and went to school for it.

She posts on facebook today "OMG OMG, Ben Folds just tweeted me! And over me asking him not to request design spec work from his fans! Today's starting out pretty cool "

Now I couldn't let that sit. So I asked "No spec work? Why?"

And the argument I got was basically "I do this for a living. I want to get paid. Ben Folds is an artist and has made millions for his work. He shouldn't ask for free handouts of other people's art."

Ok. That's a bit... on the edge for me. It makes a little sense, but for ME it comes down to this: If I want to give away my art, whose business is it but my own? Why should you be telling people not to ask?

It's like the game icons here. Or the blur photo. Or header graphics. We don't do that stuff here because we are looking to get paid. We do it because it's something we like to do. I *have* a job that pays the bills. I do art because I want to, not because I need to. I give away art because it's something I love to do. I haven't EVER actually KEPT a piece of artwork I've done. I almost always give it away. If I WANT to sell some artwork then that's my business. If someone wants to pay for it that's THEIR business.

Some people do it just to get their art "out there" and get people to look at it. And if someone comes along and starts throwing "NO SPEC WORK! NO SPEC WORK!!" picketing out there, and that person or company withdraws the offer of using a persons freely given artwork then an avenue of potential growth for an artist (or a number of artists) goes away. Their artwork that might have been seen in a contest or whatever might never be seen.

There's a site out there NO!SPEC | To educate the public about speculative (spec) work that is devoted to this. Here's a quote from their FAQ.

promotes the practice of designers ridiculously undercharging themselves in the hopes of “outbidding” any potential rivals, devaluing both their skills and those of the graphics industry in the process

Now I don't see it. What I DO see is that if the work is devalued then it's due to one thing. Supply and demand. Supply being that there are FAR more people out there with the talent to DO the work than can possibly be hired to do so. So those people bid lower and lower and devalue the industry. That's not because of spec-work. That's because there's a shitload of talent out there. If there were only a few people in the world capable of creating artwork then "the industry" could charge what they wanted. But that's not the case. There's a lot of really talented people out there that deserve to have their work seen. And dipshits closing down opportunities are a problem, not a solution.

I'm curious what others have to say about this...

Not an artist myself, but I agree with your stance. Even if you had intentions to personally pursue art as a profession then giving free art to someone like Ben Folds would obviously increase your name recognition, assuming you provide something that people like.

And that's just it. As long as people like it. Obviously he wouldn't USE it if he didn't like it. Art is subjective. What floats my boat won't necessarily float yours. But if a lot of people like it, then getting it out there and attached to someone like Ben Folds would be an awesome boost for someone that wanted to do it as a profession. Even if they DIDN'T want to do it as a profession and just for the "damn cool" factor it would be great.

But evidently some artists seem to feel that they are "above all that" and anyone giving away their work for free is eating into money THEY should be making.

I don't see this as anything different than say a shadetree mechanic working on cars. Not because he is trying to make a million bucks but because he loves to do it. So neighbors and family bring their cars to him. I don't see an association of car mechanics picketing his house because he's taking away work they could be making money off of. You can replace shadetree mechanic with almost anything too... Computer tech support, carpentry, etc. This seems to be solely the domain of stuck up art snobs for some reason.

Originally Posted by Kanati8869

I don't see this as anything different than say a shadetree mechanic working on cars. Not because he is trying to make a million bucks but because he loves to do it. So neighbors and family bring their cars to him. I don't see an association of car mechanics picketing his house because he's taking away work they could be making money off of. You can replace shadetree mechanic with almost anything too... Computer tech support, carpentry, etc. This seems to be solely the domain of stuck up art snobs for some reason.

This.

As for the Art aspect making it somehow different.....it isn't. A singer could demand millions of dollars per performance, or nothing (most cases). Someone singing for free at church is not inhibiting Celine Dion from selling out in Vegas for years on end (although one would think taste would). If her Art is good enough (for whatever she designs) that a company wants to pay her a wage....good on her. If someone wants to do it as good or better for free, maybe she is in the wrong business.

As for you.....I wish I had 1/100th of your talent.

All wrong. You guys missed the point completely.

You need a Mechanic, so you start a contest, to see who can fix your car the best. Everyone checks it out, a few fix the problem, one finds new problems and fixes those too, One guy paints the car. You choose the Painter. All those other mechanics have done the job, worked their ass off, and won't get paid a dime for it. That is Spec work, brought on by social media.

Try to do that with out the contest. See how much you spend.

Originally Posted by SmokenScion

All wrong. You guys missed the point completely.

You need a Mechanic, so you start a contest, to see who can fix your car the best. Everyone checks it out, a few fix the problem, one finds new problems and fixes those too, One guy paints the car. You choose the Painter. All those other mechanics have done the job, worked their ass off, and won't get paid a dime for it.

And they all knew, and agreed to that coming in. Those who worked for free did so of their own free will.

To make your example work, you would need a third party. Another mechanic (or shop) that was bitching not because they did some work for free, but because others did, thus they lose a potential customer.

Originally Posted by dex71

As for you.....I wish I had 1/100th of your talent.

Well thanks.

A downward spiral. We all want that right? Sure, we love people losing jobs! yeah! No Jobs!

Originally Posted by SmokenScion

All wrong. You guys missed the point completely.

You need a Mechanic, so you start a contest, to see who can fix your car the best. Everyone checks it out, a few fix the problem, one finds new problems and fixes those too, One guy paints the car. You choose the Painter. All those other mechanics have done the job, worked their ass off, and won't get paid a dime for it. That is Spec work, brought on by social media.

Try to do that with out the contest. See how much you spend.

What Dex said. Everyone went into it knowing that they weren't getting paid. They did it because they WANTED to do it. The same reason people are making banners for TPG. Because they WANT to. I charge as much as 165 dollars per hour at times on computer tech support too. But if people ask for help in the tech forum I sometimes help out. I've spent over an hour on someone's computer remotely from TPG before trying to help out. Because I wanted to, not because I wanted to make some money. Had they offered, I would have turned it down.

Personally I believe that because of tools becoming easier to use, more powerful, and computers also increasing in power, that more and more people have access to machines and tools that make the design job easier. And because of this there are more and more people out there that can do the job. Couple that with the poor economy and people that were in that field of work out of a job, of COURSE it's going to become competitive out there.

Competition drives the price of a product down. In this case, a glut of talented people that are capable of doing design work is the product. Whether those people work at a "firm" that specializes in that field or not is not relevant. Or at best relevant only in the fact that those are the people that would be wanting to a) stop spec-work or b) keep the price of the product high. It is unfortunate, but as technology marches on, some products become less and less required. Desktop publishing was once the domain of a very few that had extremely high-end machines geared towards that field and huge print shops with massive printing presses. Now, anyone with a modest computer and access to illustrator, corel draw, or other software can put together stunning pieces and send them down to a print house for limited run prints. It's down only at that point to talent. And there is an AWFUL LOT of that out there.