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Thread: The numbers don't lie.
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01-14-13, 11:50 AM #51
Re: The numbers don't lie.
You believe all mentally unstable people are diagnosed?
Constitutional freedoms aren't always that clear. Sometimes supporting the freedoms of an individual threatens the protection and well-being of others.
For instance I believe that possession and consumption of drugs (any) shouldn't be illegal. No one should be put in jail for consuming a drug under their own free will. Yet providing or selling drugs to minors should be illegal. I think weed should be sold legally and taxed the same as alcohol due to it being responsibly safe to consume for recreational use. Where meth, coke and heroin are not safe to consume for recreation use. You shouldn't be put in prison for using them though, as long as they were obtained legally and consumed without harming others (eg. driving).
Extremely harmful drugs are better to attach at the creation and distribution, never at the user level. All that does is create criminals out of drug users who otherwise would only be harming themselves.
This is where I am talking about a medium. Drugs should be legal.. as long as the use of them does not harm other people and especially children.“One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games.” ― C.G. Jung
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01-14-13, 11:55 AM #52Re: The numbers don't lie.
The argument makes sense even when you replace the object of choice, so why do so many people say it is different for one over the other?
As for your question about all mentally unstable people being diagnosed I do not think they are, but I also do not want to limit anyone else's freedom to possess a firearm because of the small minority of mentally unstable people that are not diagnosed.
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01-14-13, 12:10 PM #53
Re: The numbers don't lie.
If you read my previous points you will see I am not opposed to firearms. Yet zero regulation is a concern. There are regulations on cars, cigarettes, alcohol and other drugs. That is because they are potentially dangerous. I am not saying that any of them should be restricted or illegal just that there does have to be some regulation around them to make them safe for everyone.
Do you feel that minors should be allowed to drive without a drivers licence? Yet it is their constitutional right to own and drive cars, correct? Should they be able to get their driving licences before proving they can drive? That they know how to properly operate a vehicle?
Health class teaches safe sex and the potential dangers of drug use. Driver's ed teaches how to safely operate a vehicle and license prove and maintain a track record of ones safety and responsibility. Why would guns not require some sort of similar training or license?
Again, I am not opposed to gun possession in the least but some sort of regulation for anything that is potentially dangerous should be required.“One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games.” ― C.G. Jung
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01-14-13, 12:12 PM #54Re: The numbers don't lie.
And for the record I am not saying people are not entitled to have opinions about these topics. I do however find humor in the guy that says, "drugs are bad, mkay" while sipping his scotch and taking a puff on his hand rolled cigar. I also find the humor in the person that says we need to protect women's rights by keeping abortion legal, and homosexuals' rights by legalizing gay marriage, now give me your guns...
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01-14-13, 12:31 PM #55
Re: The numbers don't lie.
It's only taken into context like that because you are one of those affected. No one is taking your guns and the liberal agenda to remove rifles will not succeed just as the conservative agenda to prohibit gay marriage and abortions will not succeed.
The difference with the liberals and conservatives in topics like this is a generational/cultural bias. Those raised in farming states and other similar styles will lean towards gun freedoms just as those raised in large population will believe in gay marriage and abortion.
It's not so much the "I'm right you're wrong" it's a fair balance between selfishness and good of the country. If a woman were to get an abortion at your local planned parenthood it's going to affect only her and her family while possibly taking a dollar out of your tax pot. While the event may be tragic for those involved it does not reach your television during prime time.
Events like Sandy Hook hit everyone. Tragic events like this lead to people pushing the blame button and sometimes they stray from the reality of the situation. It's easy to understand that guns are dangerous ( Yes they are dangerous.... You take safety courses.... You don't take safety courses for safe stuff ), it just becomes hard to understand why there is such a lack of controls applied to the purchase of these items.
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01-14-13, 12:55 PM #56
Re: The numbers don't lie.
That balance of selfishness should only apply to items that are not directly decided when we found this country. Gun control unlike most items has been determined already in our founding documents. So the only selfishness that really needs addressing is from the people that think their way is better then how this country was formed.
I see no lack of controls to the purchasing of these items and i've bought one and been with several others while they bought theirs. Trying to create laws to effect the whole on the part of those that dont follow laws to begin with is failed logic.
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01-14-13, 01:00 PM #57
Re: The numbers don't lie.
A mentally unstable person could stab you in the neck as you are standing, waiting for a bus on the street, or as we've seen recently, push you in front of an oncoming train. Do you worry about that? Because the odds of you being killed by a mass murderer with an assault rifle are similar. In fact you have a greater chance of being killed in a fall in your home.
I think the problem is one of deciding realistically what we need to worry about. Crazy people killing mass numbers of people with an assault rifle is really not one of those things. For example, people being killed by drunk drivers is a much, much larger problem than mass murders using guns. Should we ban alcohol or automobiles? I doubt anyone could get behind that either.
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01-14-13, 01:01 PM #58
Re: The numbers don't lie.
You all know my stance on this issue...I´m just commenting/inquiring on the last part of your post...how do you know there is only a small minority of mentally unstable people that go undiagnosed? Mental instability is one of the most common/rampant diseases in the U.S. Statistically 1 in 4 adults suffer from some kind of mental illness. That is far from being a small minority, in my opinion.
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01-14-13, 01:10 PM #59
Re: The numbers don't lie.
“One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games.” ― C.G. Jung
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01-14-13, 01:12 PM #60Re: The numbers don't lie.
Let me rephrase. I think the number/percentage of people that are mentally unstable enough to go out and shoot up the joint, and also have the mental stability and means to purchase the firearms to do so is a small minority. Why do I say this? Because these things happen relatively infrequently when compared to the total number of people in the US. Yes, one time is too many, but in comparison it is not that rampant.
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