The numbers don't lie.

**SpecOpsScott** · 01-17-13, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Warprosper

Because this country does not have a true understanding of opportunity.
Because many of our children today are born with a glass ceiling over their head.
Because the women's rights movement led to either single parent homes or latch key kids. (Theoretically)
Because our idol-ism in this country has turned to complete shit.
Because our children are brought up with violence.
Because anyone can buy a gun.

Agreed. Although i wouldn't say anyone can buy a gun, there has been little done (nationally) to qualify people.
Remember, i live in the Peoples Republik of New York. We have been dealing with the nations toughest gun laws for years, both urban and rural.

You have the entertainment industry that adds an immeasurable "cool" factor to waepons of all sorts. That shit gets pumped out to our kids every minute. You have latch key kids that hardly know right from wrong because mommy and daddy both a have to work 70 hours a week just to get by, let alone help their kids stay in good standing with their social groups by keeping them up to date with the lasted electronic gadgets and distractions.

Yeah, the more you tear apart this issue and examine all the contributing factors, the more you see the "gun" is just a small part of the problem.

**iLLusioN** · 01-17-13, 07:56 AM

Obviously because there are more firearms. I'm fine with mandatory background checks to buy any weapon, private party or dealer. I'm more the fine with restricting people with mental issues from getting CCW's. I'm fine with keeping people with a history of violence from getting weapons. The rest of it is just pure bullshit propaganda. Too much data saying that gun restrictions have a negative effect for me to think any of it will matter. Sure, firearm deaths MIGHT go down(history says this is unlikely), but death from other means will rise. Too many people focus on the method and not the crime itself. Murder is a socio-economic crime...access to firearms isn't going to change that. People get murdered for social or monetary reasons...that's it.

I think you would be amazed how much of it IS gang or drug related violence though. I live 10 minutes away from East St. Louis, which consistently breaks the top 10 in highest crime rate, murder rate and violent crime rate. There are hundreds of murders there every year, and most of it is related to gangs or drugs.

**a weakling spaz** · 01-17-13, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by triggerhappy2005

That still doesn't explain why the US has a much higher rate of firearm (handguns, rifle, musket) deaths than other developed countries.

It also wasn't meant to. I won't spend any of my time on your assertion since you obviously didn't either. Just pointing out that describing firearm murders as an illness is nonsense, and that doctors should stick to practicing medicine. But of course next in line for the anti-liberty crowd is to declare gun ownership a disease (hence the CDC mandate).

**SpecOpsScott** · 01-17-13, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by a weakling spaz

It also wasn't meant to. I won't spend any of my time on your assertion since you obviously didn't either. Just pointing out that describing firearm murders as an illness is nonsense, and that doctors should stick to practicing medicine. But of course next in line for the anti-liberty crowd is to declare gun ownership a disease (hence the CDC mandate).

Agreed. I predict CDC findings will offer no treatment for the "disease" outside of disarmament to some degree, if not total. To me thats like prescribing amputation for a stubbed toe.

**CivilWars** · 01-17-13, 09:28 AM

I have said it in other topics, but I think it is more like prescribing advil for a massive brain tumor to make the pain go away. Trigger, you ask what the cause is every time, and every time people tell you the fact that many parents don't even give a crap about their own kids, so how can they, or now their kids, give a crap about anyone else as one answer. The other answer commonly given is the "get rich or die tryin'" mentality so many people in America have. Couple greed with no concern for your fellow man/woman, and a lot of people will get stepped on along your way.

One other key contributor IMO is the fact that most people are embarrassed to admit there are any kinks in their armor, for them or their family. Look at the Sandy Hook and Colorado shootings. Both shooters had some serious mental issues that were either not treated at all because the mother didn't want people to think something was wrong with her child/family, or the issues are not taken as seriously as they should be even when someone is receiving treatment. So yes, I totally agree, let's treat the true diseases, mental illness and poor family dynamics, and not the symptoms, guns, if we truly want a "cure".

**deathgodusmc** · 01-17-13, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Warprosper

Because this country does not have a true understanding of opportunity.
Because many of our children today are born with a glass ceiling over their head.
Because the women's rights movement led to either single parent homes or latch key kids. (Theoretically)
Because our idol-ism in this country has turned to complete shit.
Because our children are brought up with violence.
Because anyone can buy a gun.

Those are absurd.

How does 1 person make a statement of nation wide reach about people not understanding opportunity?
I can give you credit on the kids one.
Did you just blame the woman right movement for gun violence?
I agree on the idolism.
Every kid on the planet is brought up with some degree of violence or mental abuse. I fail to see how here it makes a difference.
Not everyone can buy a gun and even if they could that isnt the problem. The only ones that are an issue are the ones breaking the law with them. The other 70 million people do just fine with them.

**triggerhappy2005** · 01-17-13, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by a weakling spaz

It also wasn't meant to. I won't spend any of my time on your assertion since you obviously didn't either.

I wasn't making an assertion. I was stating a fact.

Originally Posted by a weakling spaz

Just pointing out that describing firearm murders as an illness is nonsense...

It was an analogy. An analogy isn't meant to be taken literally.

**BigHub** · 01-17-13, 04:35 PM

Guns are not the problem... The mentally unstable committing these crimes are the problem. That's all I will say on the whole gun issue.

There are some crazy people out there who need help, indeed. THAT'S what you need to focus on - getting them help. People are acting like there are AR-15-totting-triggerhappy-psychopaths on every street corner loaded down with high capacity mags. Jesus, get a grip people.

**BigHub** · 01-17-13, 04:37 PM

There's one thing that all of these shootings have in common... They had mental issues in one way or another and/or were on certain types of drugs for mental issues.

Coincidence? I think not.