Thread: Tax increase on the middle class?

Didn't the IMF admit that austerity only hurts, not helps, a struggling economy? iirc, they didn't say it was bad to do, just that it should be down very slowly and spread out to minimize the damage. Thus, it sounds to me anyways, that Romney would of been WORSE for the economy, not better.

I've also mentioned a few times before, that while I support taxes raising eventually, now isn't the time to do it. Though this doesn't bother me too much.

Lastly, the people in the article are either total idiots, or trolls. I'll give you it wasn't mentioned much at all, but still. Oh, and you can find those on the other side to, and as the article showed you can find overly partisan writers on that side as well.

Originally Posted by Ranger10

But the rich pay so much more in taxes than anyone its comical. When you say "free ride" do you mean when you take something from someone else so you don't have to work? Is that your definition of "free ride"? Because that sounds more like all the entitlements people are getting by sitting on their ass at home and texting on their shiney new iPhones.

And the newest tax on the middle class is from Obama! Obamacare, the payroll tax, the expiring BUSH tax cuts which were not created by Lord Obama.

I will say this, I certainly agree that the lower income brackets certainly need tax relief. The government doens't need their money to run. But with certain entitlement programs, you'll make LESS take home money earning 50k a year than you would working part time for 20K and getting government assistance. there is something wrong with that.

No, My definition of free ride is more like how the upper class/rich/politicians get away with absolutely EVERYTHING point fingers at the middle class and lower class then Make US pay for THEIR mistakes. Nd anyone can tell me all they want that the rich pay their share....Plz, Lets be real here. They simply do not, not even in the slightest. A common known comparison would be how much an enlisted soldier risking his life for his country makes maybe 40k a year and an elected official gets 80k-to anything above that...Thats what im getting at by free ride.

Originally Posted by Ranger10

You mean like how the middle and lower classes seem to despise those who know how to make money? You're confusing disdain for an expectation that you work for the things you have. I have no problem helping people get on their own two feet, its when the make a lifestyle of it and stay there because it's easier to have me work for them while they do nothing and draw unemployment.

How insulting is it to someone in a lower income bracket to be told that they are relying on someone else to survive? "No, you can't make enough money, you're too poor, so we're gonna take some money from this other guy who has a lot so you can buy the latest smartphone. Keep looking for that job. But don't worry if you don't find one, we'll just tax the rich more."

If I were in a lower income bracket, the last thing in the world I would want is a hand out from some rich asshole who makes money selling women's under garments. Fuck that guy. I'll make it on my own thank you. But noooo... people are now perfectly content supporting a candidate who wants to create 'wealth' through redistribution. Tax the rich more, to feed the poor. It's a hollow rhetoric that wins votes, because it rings true to those who suck at life.

So to answer your question, it's not disdain, its an expectation that you are an able bodied individual and you shouldn't need my help. All that says is that I have power over you. Is that really what you support?

That's the situation my son is in. He has a low wage job, and refuses to go on the dole (which I am proud of him for), but as a result he is constantly on the verge of being homeless as his co-workers blow their money on booze and cigarettes and lottery tickets, etc. It's maddening. He's so angry about the welfare state I can't even talk to him about it.

Originally Posted by Ranger10

You mean like how the middle and lower classes seem to despise those who know how to make money? You're confusing disdain for an expectation that you work for the things you have. I have no problem helping people get on their own two feet, its when the make a lifestyle of it and stay there because it's easier to have me work for them while they do nothing and draw unemployment.

How insulting is it to someone in a lower income bracket to be told that they are relying on someone else to survive? "No, you can't make enough money, you're too poor, so we're gonna take some money from this other guy who has a lot so you can buy the latest smartphone. Keep looking for that job. But don't worry if you don't find one, we'll just tax the rich more."

If I were in a lower income bracket, the last thing in the world I would want is a hand out from some rich asshole who makes money selling women's under garments. Fuck that guy. I'll make it on my own thank you. But noooo... people are now perfectly content supporting a candidate who wants to create 'wealth' through redistribution. Tax the rich more, to feed the poor. It's a hollow rhetoric that wins votes, because it rings true to those who suck at life.

So to answer your question, it's not disdain, its an expectation that you are an able bodied individual and you shouldn't need my help. All that says is that I have power over you. Is that really what you support?

Yes but the real majority of us are middle class who get up and go to work everyday. Yes there are a group of people that sit on their ass with their hand up and all hard workers despise them regardless of their income level. All everyone is trying to do is find out what is fair, and its not possible. Your enemy ranger is the media and how it depicts the rich. The middle classes enemy is also the media who depicts us. You see we are not different, we all want to prosper. The way we get there is the divide. Until we reconcile our differences this economy will remain stagnant.

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Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

Didn't the IMF admit that austerity only hurts, not helps, a struggling economy? iirc, they didn't say it was bad to do, just that it should be down very slowly and spread out to minimize the damage. Thus, it sounds to me anyways, that Romney would of been WORSE for the economy, not better.

I've also mentioned a few times before, that while I support taxes raising eventually, now isn't the time to do it. Though this doesn't bother me too much.

Lastly, the people in the article are either total idiots, or trolls. I'll give you it wasn't mentioned much at all, but still. Oh, and you can find those on the other side to, and as the article showed you can find overly partisan writers on that side as well.

That's because we're creating dependency. Like any drug, coming off it cold turkey will cause severe problems. We're in the position now that no matter what we do is going to really, really suck. We could continue spending like we are, increasing the debt ceiling, until our credit rating is shot, and it costs of more and more to borrow just to fund out daily operations. Eventually, that's going to catch up to us. And it's going to suck worse than any measure we impose upon ourselves to fix the problem.

We as a country are not solvent at our current taxation/spending levels. So if the answer is more taxation, where does it come from? The rich? Really? We've already discussed in a number of threads how minuscule the wealthy in this country have compared to what we as a country spend. If we took ALL of their money, not just what it taxable, we'd only pay for a couple months at our current spending rate. So do you want higher taxes for the middle class? People are already bitching on Twitter about how the latest tax increase is bleeding them dry.

So if you can't tax, where do you cut? The military? Okay sure. Cut the military back. Now how many unemployed people did you just create? What about all those private sector jobs are going to be lost like Lockheed Martin, or any of a thousand companies who rely on the government for contracts? the military has more government jobs than any two government departments combined. That should be a Dems wet dream to have so many people employed by the state.

So what's the answer?

Wait for it... we put the people to work who are getting all the tax handouts to sit at home and do nothing. Take their money away, see if it lights a fire under their ass to get motivated and find a job. How about we try that? Oh no, we can't because we've created dependency. Their addicts to free money. And come hell or high water, they'll vote in whichever candidate will keep that money flowing to them.

So would Romney have been worse? Honestly? Yes. I think he would have done what I described above. Things would have gotten a lot worse before they got better. But they would have gotten better. Obama thinks you can spend your way out of any debt as long as you don't look at the final bill. Let someone else tackle that problem. Which is why I will continuously say, "I told you so" to everyone here who voted for Obama. Much the same way we spent 8 years listening to how terrible Bush was. Guess what...

Your turn.

Originally Posted by Hocus Pocus

Yes but the real majority of us are middle class who get up and go to work everyday. Yes there are a group of people that sit on their ass with their hand up and all hard workers despise them regardless of their income level. All everyone is trying to do is find out what is fair, and its not possible. Your enemy ranger is the media and how it depicts the rich. The middle classes enemy is also the media who depicts us. You see we are not different, we all want to prosper. The way we get there is the divide. Until we reconcile our differences this economy will remain stagnant.

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I totally agree. The media is the impetus for the acidity. But we are a consumerist culture. We want things. And eventually that want turns to envy. Envy of what others have. I am middle class... for now. I say "for now", because my "American Dream" is to one day make the kind of stupid money we're all talking about. Whether or not I ever get there isn't the point. The point is, its fun to work for it.

Take away my desire to work by giving me free stuff that I don't want, and it kills the entrepreneurial spirit that makes our country so great. Or worse, tax the shit out of me, to pay for others' ineptitude, and that kills my desire as well.

Fifty years ago, if you lost your job, you went from office building to office building trying to get a job in the mail room. Today, you spend that time in the unemployment line. It's degrading. We're telling people they aren't good enough. What's the difference between asking for money from someone who has it because you spend too much, and the degrading option of moving back in with mom and dad so they can pay for everything?

Nothing!

But to get to your point, it's necessarily the media I'm most concerned with. It's the fact that their tainted message is sinking in and deciding political elections. THAT's why I can't stand them. Report the news, don't skew it to fit your agenda.

Originally Posted by Ranger10

You mean like how the middle and lower classes seem to despise those who know how to make money? You're confusing disdain for an expectation that you work for the things you have. I have no problem helping people get on their own two feet, its when the make a lifestyle of it and stay there because it's easier to have me work for them while they do nothing and draw unemployment.

How insulting is it to someone in a lower income bracket to be told that they are relying on someone else to survive? "No, you can't make enough money, you're too poor, so we're gonna take some money from this other guy who has a lot so you can buy the latest smartphone. Keep looking for that job. But don't worry if you don't find one, we'll just tax the rich more."

If I were in a lower income bracket, the last thing in the world I would want is a hand out from some rich asshole who makes money selling women's under garments. Fuck that guy. I'll make it on my own thank you. But noooo... people are now perfectly content supporting a candidate who wants to create 'wealth' through redistribution. Tax the rich more, to feed the poor. It's a hollow rhetoric that wins votes, because it rings true to those who suck at life.

So to answer your question, it's not disdain, its an expectation that you are an able bodied individual and you shouldn't need my help. All that says is that I have power over you. Is that really what you support?

Corrupt police Officers.
They happen, its publicized, but they are not the majority, or even a Large Minority. Much like the Lazies you mention above.


What you say above is just not true. Any of it. More divisive crap.

I do not support any Interpretation of my words by you, it is my own opinion. Take it or leave it.

To say "you shouldn't need my help" is exactly what the French told us when we were fighting in the revolutionary war right? Of course they did. Derp.

I'm out too. I relapsed. I am a drama forum addict and I have a problem.