Just a simple question:

**deathgodusmc** · 01-14-13, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Hocus Pocus

No. In telling you to prove that there are more poor people "abusing the system" than rich. Furthermore, show me the percentage of poor peole abusing the system that voted democrat. You can't, because its an asinine claim. Thus while I said this thread is obscene and serves no real purpose.

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Read the thread i responded to before spouting off. Where did i say anything about what party someone affiliates themselves with?

As for the rest if you read what i responded to you will see i gave reasons for what i said. Using legitimate tax code to prepare your taxes is not abusing the system. So ignoring that group of people leaves us with people that are filing illegal tax returns versus people abusing the welfare system. You really think the smaller group is going to have the higher percentage of abusers? You shouldn't need proof once your looking at the group in a realistic nature. Im not bashing the poor. Im simply saying that his post was backwards thinking when you look at it reality.

If this thread offends you feel free to leave. That is the last time i will say that.

**deathgodusmc** · 01-14-13, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Hocus Pocus

You cant even define what abusing the system is anymore.

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I think the problem is not what the definition of abusing the system is but more the perspective a person has on what they believe falls into the definition. Some here obviously think using legitimate tax breaks in the tax code is abuse where as i do not. I believe the guy across the street from me that sits outside smoking weed and drinking beer while collecting welfare, unemployment, and food stamps does fall into the definition.

**deathgodusmc** · 01-14-13, 09:24 AM

Allow me to say something here as a mod. This topic is touchy in its nature. I dont necessarily agree with how it started as you can see by my first post in the thread. However it does have as civil put it have potential to be a good discussion. That being said there have been personal jabs taken and that is not a path this thread will go down for long before this thread gets locked. So i ask everyone here to stay on topic and let the thread run its course however short or long that may be.

**-Lazarus-** · 01-14-13, 09:59 AM

The founder of Lazanomics thanks you.

**MaFioSo** · 01-14-13, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Thats sum backward ass thinking right there. The number of poor abusing the system is already higher then the number of rich that abuse the system because there is more poor then rich people. Your also saying that the rich using legitimate tax breaks is the same as someone sucking the system dry when it isnt the same.

Your also saying that someone using the tax code as it is currently designed is some how wrong. That is not the case because we ALL use the tax code to our benefit. I highly doubt you put 0 in your deductions line.

Legitimate tax breaks? You do know that big corporate lobbies congress to pass tax loop holes for them right? How else do you think corporations with bill

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**deathgodusmc** · 01-14-13, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by MaFioSo

Legitimate tax breaks? You do know that big corporate lobbies congress to pass tax loop holes for them right? How else do you think corporations with bill

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Sure i do but its legal. Im not saying im happy about it just that it isnt abuse. Shit i would even love to see it fixed. I've always been a fan of a flax tax that everyone can figure out. At least then i wouldn't need 400 forms to fill out every year. Well to let my accountant fill out every year that is.

**CivilWars** · 01-14-13, 10:44 AM

Here's the deal on abuse of the system. I freely admit I have no clue how many people that are on the system are abusing it, and neither does anyone else. People can estimate how many it is, but it will never be accurate. Why is that you say? Because if we knew who was abusing the system they would be kicked off the system, right? So I can assume 20% are abusing, and that the system is screwed, or I can assume that it is 2%, and has no real impact on the overall system, but either way I am just assuming, and so is anyone else.

**MaFioSo** · 01-14-13, 10:49 AM

My last post got cut off, continued...billion in profits but pay 0% in taxes, in fact in some cases they get refunds from the government. It may be technically legal, but its corrupt as hell. It's disturbing how some in this country have gotten so powerful that they are able to make there crime legal before they commit them.

The way I see it, when you fake an injury to cheat the system and get disability, that is a crime.....same as when you lobby congress to pass tax loopholes for your company, IMO that is also crime.

– Seventy-eight of the 280 companies paid zero or less in federal income taxes in at least one year from 2008 to 2010…In the years they paid no income tax, these companies earned $156 billion in pretax U.S. profits. But instead of paying $55 billion in income taxes as the 35 percent corporate tax rate seems to require, these companies generated so many excess tax breaks that they reported negative taxes (often receiving outright tax rebate checks from the U.S. Treasury), totaling $21.8 billion. These companies’ “negative tax rates” mean that they made more after taxes than before taxes in those no-tax years.

Source: 30 Major Corporations Paid No Income Taxes In The Last Three Years, While Making $160 Billion | ThinkProgress

**CivilWars** · 01-14-13, 10:58 AM

Is it also a crime to you to take bribes to make such loopholes?

**Glitch** · 01-14-13, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Thats sum backward ass thinking right there. The number of poor abusing the system is already higher then the number of rich that abuse the system because there is more poor then rich people. Your also saying that the rich using legitimate tax breaks is the same as someone sucking the system dry when it isnt the same.

Your also saying that someone using the tax code as it is currently designed is some how wrong. That is not the case because we ALL use the tax code to our benefit. I highly doubt you put 0 in your deductions line.

Come on Death... Note the "%" signs.

How come someone legitimately on welfare "sucking the system dry" for about 20k a year is worse than someone using the tax code to avoid paying 10's or in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars?

It is just Tit for Tat. Except I am more focused on the HUGE abusers than the ones that are tiny by comparison.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/defa...port_Final.pdf

Some of the richest Americans pay extraordinarily low tax rates—as they hire lawyers and
accountants to take particular advantage of loopholes and tax expenditures. The average tax
rate masks the fact that some high-income Americans pay near their statutory tax rate, while
others take advantage of tax expenditures and loopholes to pay extraordinarily low rates—and
it is these high-income taxpayers that the Buffett rule is meant to address .

 Of millionaires in 2009, a full 22,000 households making more than $1 million annually
paid less than 15 percent of their income in income taxes — and 1,470 managed to
paid no federal income taxes on their million-plus-dollar incomes, according to IRS data.

 Of the 400 highest income Americans, one out of every three in this group of the most
financially fortunate Americans paid less than 15 percent of their income in income
taxes in 2008.

Just an FYI. Up to and including this year I have 1 in my W4 deductions line although 2012 brought me 2 children so for the first time ever I have dependents. However, once again, I will not itemize and I will take the standard deduction. Not that facts ever mattered to you before.

But by all means keep defending the people that spends more money than you and I make combined annually in ensuring they don't pay their fair share. It doesn't make you look silly at all.