Just a simple question:

**Guyver** · 01-16-13, 02:00 AM

So, Hitch. I was born with CP. Should I not receive help? Am I just a moocher?

**triggerhappy2005** · 01-16-13, 02:21 AM

Guyver, what's CP?

**Guyver** · 01-16-13, 02:24 AM

Cerebral palsy - PubMed Health

**Hitch** · 01-16-13, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Guyver

So, Hitch. I was born with CP. Should I not receive help? Am I just a moocher?

I assume you are not incapacitated. I used to work for Baylor Biomedical Services in Deep Ellum, years ago (20). It was amazing to me how many of our customers wanted our engineers help so that they would be able to work, in whatever capacity. The government and insurance companies (where applicable) subsidized the solutions.

If you are able to work, which I suspect you are, I hope you try. If, on the other hand, you are not able to work and your gaming skills and ability to type a trolling post was all you are capable of, then yes, you should receive assistance.

**Hitch** · 01-16-13, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by Fovezer

Now we are getting somewhere because the inconsistencies in your argument are coming to light. If everyone cannot have a job based on higher education, which I agree with, how do you propose these people survive while working minimum wage jobs? How are unskilled laborers supposed to get a liveable wage? Would you support a mandatory liveable wage instead of a minimum wage? If only there was some way for workers to organize and bargain for wages and benefits collectively? Oh, but according to people like you, unions are the devil! Those people don't "deserve" higher wages, they deserve the lower wages that cannot sustain their family, which forces them on government assistance. Good plan!

More rambling. This whole discussion was about those on government assistance, no one said anything about "punishing the rich." Having this conversation with you is like watching a train derail. Everything going up in flames all over the place. That whole "the rich are job creators" myth has been thoroughly debunked here, too, so I have no idea why you feel the need to worship the wealthy as if they are benevolent job-giving gods.

So you don't think these people should get government aid, and I presume you feel they should rely on the charity of others, yet you don't actually donate to any programs that would help these people? Once again, all talk but no solutions.

You and and your attempts at debate. Check most government run/assisted charities and see how much money actually makes it through the beaurocracies and get back to me. Of course, you'll need to see how much makes it in, first.

In response to unions, I have worked in Mexico, wherein we built assemblies for companies whose unions were choking them. Catapillar, PPG, Koering, Unit Rig, Case, Kumatsu...the list would go on. My point in response to YOU bringing unions into this is that you are full of shit. We were able to EXACTLY DUPLICATE what the unions built in 1/3 the time, usually, with 3/4th the labor and about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost, delivered.

In fact, forget what we did in Mexico, lets review what temporary workers did at Decatur Truck division in Illinois while UAW was striking for more money: 9 poeple off the street (women included) were able to build 3 more trucks in a month's time after a 2 month learning curve...where once stood 12 experienced line workers in that plant. Don't tell me about how wonderful the damn unions are, because you do not know a fucking thing.

One more example of your pathetic union thuggery support. I was at Catapiller during thier company car show and picnic. You never saw (outside of SEMA) that many restored vehicles and custom hotrods ranging in value from umpteens to over 100K in one place. A lot of them means a huge parking lot on the north side of thier main assembly plant was full. It was an impressive show, to say the least. Not to mention, how many of those rides were pulled in with enclosed car trailers behind diesel pickups. Google Earth the Cat plants in Illinios if you need to get an idea of just how large they are. Decatur Trucks is the smallest, if I remember correctly.

Put your union pity party back in your ass where you pulled it from.

**Hitch** · 01-16-13, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Fovezer

Yeah, I'm not going to get behind your desire to strip rights from people because you don't like them or how they vote. I know conservatives nowadays are really getting behind the voter suppression thing, but even then most aren't trying to ban people from voting, just making it unnecessarily more complicated. You want to actually take away a right, and that's beyond reprehensible.

Asking for ID is an attempt to legitimize the vote, not suppress it. Exxaaaaggggerrraaate some more.

**Fovezer** · 01-16-13, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Hitch

You and and your attempts at debate. Check most government run/assisted charities and see how much money actually makes it through the beaurocracies and get back to me. Of course, you'll need to see how much makes it in, first.

In response to unions, I have worked in Mexico, wherein we built assemblies for companies whose unions were choking them. Catapillar, PPG, Koering, Unit Rig, Case, Kumatsu...the list would go on. My point in response to YOU bringing unions into this is that you are full of shit. We were able to EXACTLY DUPLICATE what the unions built in 1/3 the time, usually, with 3/4th the labor and about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost, delivered.

In fact, forget what we did in Mexico, lets review what temporary workers did at Decatur Truck division in Illinois while UAW was striking for more money: 9 poeple off the street (women included) were able to build 3 more trucks in a month's time after a 2 month learning curve...where once stood 12 experienced line workers in that plant. Don't tell me about how wonderful the damn unions are, because you do not know a fucking thing.

One more example of your pathetic union thuggery support. I was at Catapiller during thier company car show and picnic. You never saw (outside of SEMA) that many restored vehicles and custom hotrods ranging in value from umpteens to over 100K in one place. A lot of them means a huge parking lot on the north side of thier main assembly plant was full. It was an impressive show, to say the least. Not to mention, how many of those rides were pulled in with enclosed car trailers behind diesel pickups. Google Earth the Cat plants in Illinios if you need to get an idea of just how large they are. Decatur Trucks is the smallest, if I remember correctly.

Put your union pity party back in your ass where you pulled it from.

Like I said, you're like a train derailing. You say everyone on the dole is a lazy, good-for-nothing moocher, even though most of them actually work. Why are they on assistance? Because they don't make enough! How are we going to get them off assistance? They have to be paid more. How do we get them paid more? Let them have unions to negotiate better wages or pass a law mandating a liveable wage. You have no solutions at all. You haven't brought anything to the table and don't seem interested in solving this at all and are more interested in stopping minorities from voting.

You completely ignore the rest of my post to go on this long and irrational rant based on nothing but supposed anecdotes, which are completely meaningless to me. I live in one of the most heavily unionized states, and can tell the same number of anecdotal stories of both good and bad things I've seen. However, I'm not as rabidly irrational about them as you are.

Originally Posted by Hitch

Asking for ID is an attempt to legitimize the vote, not suppress it. Exxaaaaggggerrraaate some more.

Once again, you prove you don't have a clue what you are going on about. Asking for ID wasn't ever the problem, the problem was demanding specific ID's only issued by the government that you had to pay for. It was specifically designed to target the poor, minorities, and students, which tend to vote overwhelmingly Democratic. To say it wasn't an attempt to suppress the vote is naive at best when even Republican leaders came out and said as much.

**Kanati** · 01-16-13, 11:29 AM

Pretty sure you guys were warned once already. Calling Guyver a troll for asking what seemed to be a valid question when you opened this thread with the ADMITTED INTENT of trolling?

Then in the next one you post solid facts based on first hand knowledge... and bookend it with personal attacks?

This one is done and it shouldn't have even started.