Thread: A discussion on gay marriage

I'm not the most ardent supporter of this movement by any stretch of the imagination, how ever I surprised on how much resistance I see to it. I just don't find any religious arguments hold any water due to America's secular nature.

So I would like to know from those who oppose it here of any secular reasons why the do so. If your just doing out of a religious obligation of what you think is right, then please keep it to your self. If there isn't any secular reasons against it then there is no reason at all for it to be illegal in America. No matter how evil you religion claims it to be, if you can't prove that it is bad out side of the teaching of your religion then it should not hold any weight at all in discussion of American law.

So tell me those of here who oppose it, what secular reasons cause you to oppose the legalization of gay marriage. Also, for those of you who wish the fed to have no say in it, why not? I think it would be a rare moment of the government doing its job protect the rights of its citizens.

Sorry if we had this topic before, I lurk sporadically.

We have had several threads on it. Almost everyone who frequents this site is in favor of equal rights for everyone.

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I saw no answers yet so I'll share my thoughts. Putting my religious beliefs aside, for me it all comes down to family, which is what the institution of marriage is ostensibly set up for in the first place. Government recognizes and rewards marriage in order to promote growing family units. So naturally when Marriage is discussed the natural next step is children, as it should be. My view from a secular standpoint is that encouraging and promoting gay marriage is a bad thing from a secular standpoint because it is statistically indicated that the best family unit includes a mother and a father in a committed relationship. This is the only family unit that government should be encouraging as it is best for a healthy productive society. Divorce is also bad for kids overall as is single parenthood. Government should not be encouraging those things any more than it should be encouraging gay marriage.

The statistics don't lie. Government should not be encouraging gay marriage because it is not the best model of what society needs families to look like in order for it to be the most stable and healthy it can be. Research has shown that promoting gay marriage will encourage further dysfunction in future generations of kids who come from those marriages. Just as kids of divorce and kids from single parents have issues too. These things may still happen where kids are raised in less than ideal environments, but the question was on gay marriage, which would have to be recognized by government to be legal. The answer to that question is no, for both secular and religious reasons.

http://www.ctfamily.org/editorial10.html

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/chi...vantaged-study

http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-st...vious-research

That said, I am against government defining marriage at all, again for religious reasons. But you asked me to leave my religion out of it and I decided to stay within the parameter of the fact that government will continue to recognize marriage, so there is my answer.

Originally Posted by -Lazarus-

That said, I am against government defining marriage at all, again for religious reasons. But you asked me to leave my religion out of it and I decided to stay within the parameter of the fact that government will continue to recognize marriage, so there is my answer.

Your sources are hugely biased to say the least. Not even worthy considering really.
EDIT
To prove my point take a look at this Publications - NLLFS - National Lesbian Longitudinal Family Study
It's obviously going to be pro-lesbian just as your sources are going to be anti-gay.
EDIT 2
Also when I say leave your religion at the door I don't mean you can't use it to create your personal opinion on gay marriage, I'm saying you can't use it as a reason to oppose it legally. I.E We wouldn't listen to a Catholic trying to ban the sale of meat on Fridays during lent or a Jew making Kosher mandatory at all restaurants, even though they have the right to their belief. Now if they were to provide compelling secular evidence that proves that some how it's harmful to us all, regardless of faith then they would have a legit point, but they obviously don't. I view the gay marriage issue to be no different. You can believe that it's anything from a minor sin to a horrible blasphemy, but if you don't show any reason beyond your faith in why it is wrong then you can't oppose it legally in secular country.

Originally Posted by PvtPrivate

Your sources are hugely biased to say the least. Not even worthy considering really.

Of course. The University of Texas at Austin, LSU, Simon Fraser University, Stanford University,.. They have it in for gay people. Not.

The last link, to the UT study which is quite expansive, is very telling.

Look, you asked the question and I answered it. And all you did was refuse to recognize the studies I referenced, calling them all biased. This really sounds like you are saying "Tell me what I want to hear so we can discuss the issue". I could post more references to university and other studies that show the instability of homosexual relationships compared to heterosexual and how the best family unit is one that includes a man and a woman as parents. But based on your response it's pointless. The only response I ever see to points like this is one where people point out how fucked up male-female relationships are, as though that is some kind of defense for adding government recognized gay marriage.

How about you post your own references supporting how successful and beneficial gay marriage would be to society or at least to more than just the two people involved? There are volumes of data that show that families with male and female as mother and father is the most healthy and ideal family unit. Why should the government make gay marriage legal? Why not have government just allow gays to enter civil unions, providing equal protection under the law (which I fully would support by the way)? What compelling affirmative reason can you give to support a push for marriage rather than just civil unions?

I am sorry but I had to.

Even assuming that your statistics are spot on Laz, I would still support marriage equality because I won't presume that just because a lot of homosexual marriages might fail or result in less than optimal child rearing that all will. As long as the government recognizes and provides benefits to married people, I must insist that any two consisting adults be allowed to be married.

What I prefer, much as you do is that the government not be in the marriage business at all. We should all be taxed as individuals and if people want to co-own property then they should draw up paperwork to that effect. Let the religious institutions deal with marriage and how it is defined.

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My best friend is gay, I have a lot of gay pals and I am AGAINST gay marriage legislation.

I am against the government making any laws narrowing what contracts two consenting adults can make. There should be no laws that interfere with that. So when there is a law up for vote that says "Marriage can now be ______." I vote against it. When I bring this up in discussion some of the gay folk get really annoyed with me but most think it is reasonable but are disappointed I wouldn't vote to allow those freedoms.

In my utopia the government doesn't need to make laws that dictate my sex life or who I want to make contracts with. When someone says I have to vote a certain way I just fall back on what my utopia is and that is how I vote. Really, if you aren't voting for your Utopia what is the point?

The argument against same sex marriage is generally founded with religious belief and I think those organizations can kick you out if you don't follow their rules. So if you are a Catholic and you are openly gay they are probably going to excommunicate you and that is fine...unfortunate that the Catholic church still holds onto that belief but its their prerogative. No need for wide reaching legislation. If you think same sex marriage is an abomination live your life privately like that... no need to take away the freedoms of consenting adults.