Thread: Atheist leader?

Originally Posted by BrockSamson

"My question is - does this represent the typical atheist's viewpoint?"

It's a simple question Brock. One I'm not really qualified to answer. So I asked.

I accept that I took what you said in the wrong way Lazarus and I apologize for that being the case but you have to understand the history of non-believers being linked to having an immoral constitution. So I am always on edge to aggressively respond to any suggestion of such a thing and the way I read what you wrote it sure sounded like you suggested that atheists morally have no issues with some form of non-aggressive pedophilia.

Originally Posted by BrockSamson

I agree 100% with his point about revisionism and I think him defending a man that molested him to make his argument as completely disgusting and he quite possibly might have long standing mental health issues stemming from the incident.

That's kind of what I was thinking. I usually try to infer someone's motivation for saying something as we all do, but I just can't quite understand on this why he would say that.

Originally Posted by DJ Mr. White

Laz spins so much to force his viewpoints onto others that he must be a maytag.

Thanks for making my point for me. Knew I could count on you... :-)

1. Atheists don't have or need a leader. That's the whole point. We have seen the truth and the truth is that we don't need a spiritual crutch. I had no idea who he even was prior to your post.
2. You were pretty inflammatory in your original post. I was offended. You would be as well if I had made a post suggesting that all Christians must believe the same things as the Westboro Baptists.
3. I believe that he was talking about judging historical figures by modern morals and you just can't. An extreme example: King Leonidas of Sparta likely participated in what a modern person would call major pedophilia, owned slaves, and killed people he disagreed with. He is still a heroic figure.

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Originally Posted by Gumby

1. Atheists don't have or need a leader. That's the whole point. We have seen the truth and the truth is that we don't need a spiritual crutch. I had no idea who he even was prior to your post.

You had no idea who he was? Richard Dawkins is perhaps the most outspoken and well known Atheist of the age, if not in history. He is at least as well known as the late Christopher Hitchens or Sam Harris though clearly not as intelligent in my opinion. He has written 10 or more bestselling books on the subject. I find it difficult to believe that any Atheist would claim not to know who he is, but I'll take you at your word on that.

Dawkins, along with Harris, Hitchens and Daniel Dennett is considered within popular culture to be one of the most influential leaders of the modern Atheist movement.

The 25 Most Influential Living Atheists | Super Scholar
Richard Dawkins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Gumby

2. You were pretty inflammatory in your original post. I was offended. You would be as well if I had made a post suggesting that all Christians must believe the same things as the Westboro Baptists.

First of all I didn't suggest that all Atheists must believe the same thing as Dawkins. I did ask a question about that. And no. I wouldn't be offended about you suggesting that Christians must believe the same thing as the Westboro Baptists because the suggestion is so obviously ludicrous. But that hasn't stopped anyone from insinuating that right here in these forums. In fact that exact thing has happened with regularity here, as people point to this Westboro group of idiots in an effort to claim that Christianity is a corrupt religion that promotes hate and racism and is anti-gay. I think they have also been used as fodder in any abortion discussions we have had here too but my memory may fail me. Anyone who has been here for any amount of time has seen Westboro used this way at least once though.

Originally Posted by Gumby

3. I believe that he was talking about judging historical figures by modern morals and you just can't. An extreme example: King Leonidas of Sparta likely participated in what a modern person would call major pedophilia, owned slaves, and killed people he disagreed with. He is still a heroic figure.

Interesting point and the reason I wanted to have the discussion in the first place. I don't think he was limiting it to historical figures. The reference he made was to someone within his own lifetime.

All of that said though, Dawkins isn't the Atheist equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church, though I do wish that people today saw him that way. Dawkins is largely considered a pre-eminent thinker and Atheist speaker around the world. So when he says this kind of crap, it sees to me a much bigger deal than the Phelps family standing on corners and holding signs saying "God hates fags".

I think it is valid to say there is no atheist pope. There are certainly prominent public non-religious figures: Dawkins, Dennet, Harris, Bill Nye, Mythbuster guys, James Randii, Brad & Angelina, Hitchens, Morgan Freeman, Natalie Portman, Penn and Teller, etc etc etc etc etc Lots of public figures, celebrities and leaders of their academic fields... all who have said or done at some point and time something really dumb (speaking in absolutes here I can't imagine Bill Nye really falls into this category). Some more than others are seen as figure heads or evangelical about their beliefs.

There are secular 'churches'. A lot of people that lose their faith miss most of all the community so there are groups who try to get that community feel. There are also a lot of groups that try to organize atheists to do charity work because atheists unfortunately are viewed as lacking heart or compassion. I think hug an atheist day is coming up...

Hug an Atheist

Originally Posted by BrockSamson

I think it is valid to say there is no atheist pope. There are certainly prominent public non-religious figures: Dawkins, Dennet, Harris, Bill Nye, Mythbuster guys, James Randii, Brad & Angelina, Hitchens, Morgan Freeman, Natalie Portman, Penn and Teller, etc etc etc etc etc Lots of public figures, celebrities and leaders of their academic fields... all who have said or done at some point and time something really dumb (speaking in absolutes here I can't imagine Bill Nye really falls into this category). Some more than others are seen as figure heads or evangelical about their beliefs.

There are secular 'churches'. A lot of people that lose their faith miss most of all the community so there are groups who try to get that community feel. There are also a lot of groups that try to organize atheists to do charity work because atheists unfortunately are viewed as lacking heart or compassion. I think hug an atheist day is coming up...

Hug an Atheist

Atheist Pope. LOL! That's a band name if I ever heard one. Anyway I hope there is public outcry against Dawkins on this. He sounds more and more like an idiot lately, He's said a lot of dumb things, but this takes the cake. And if this is what he believes, don't you think it hurts the credibility of Atheism as a movement?

Giving recent events in which the church was not only aware of pedophiles within the congregation but did their best to cover it up would indicate all Christians condone pedophilia.