Shutdown

**Red_Lizard2** · 10-02-13, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Since you like Forbes so much. Labor Unions: Obamacare Will 'Shatter' Our Health Benefits, Cause 'Nightmare Scenarios' - Forbes

That article pretty much agrees with Trigger though, it doesn't sound like the Labor Unions want to opt out, they want reforms to the bill and don't think it is perfect, but I didn't see any of them saying, "Kill it! Kill it with fire!"

Also worth pointing out the mandates (something the Labor Unions mention they were against, most employer) is supposedly the least like part of the bill.

Over 55%, and up to 88%, of Americans regard the following facets of Obamacare at least somewhat favorably: tax credits to small businesses to buy insurance, closing the Medicare "doughnut hole", creating insurance exchanges, giving rebates to customers of insurance customers that spend too much on administrative costs, and the employer mandate. Even Republicans like all of them except the Medicaid expansion, increase in Medicare tax, employer mandate, and individual mandate.

Indeed, the only requirement of Obamacare most people didn't like was the mandate for all people to join it.

The US healthcare paradox: we like the Affordable Care Act but fear Obamacare | Harry J Enten | Comment is free | theguardian.com

That was from a March 2013 poll in fairness, not sure what it is now or if anyone has done polling on it (have to look into it), but if it is true it makes the same point that people like parts of the ACA, they just want other parts gone or reformed. Though in this case they are talking about opting out more then the labor unions.

Lastly, I need to stop reading british forums or news, keep wanting to typing effing labour instead of labor.

**Nuckle** · 10-02-13, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by WickedTribe

Yes, they're the assholes. The president was elected in large part because of his healthcare plan. The Democrats were elected to congress at least in part because of healthcare. The people spoke, and the vote was passed. If the people speak differently in the next election, then the law can be repealed. When the Democratic party does this, they're the assholes, but in this case, the Republican party are the assholes.

Serious question, Is there data that backs up your comments?

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**Red_Lizard2** · 10-02-13, 09:19 PM

Also, why doesn't the house just pass CR 59 (I think that was the number)? Spend six weeks working on parts of the law to make it better and problems solved, well except immigration, debt, economy, 1000000 other issues, but baby steps. I've heard one reason is the Hasert rule, thus they won't bring CR 59 to the floor (which would likely pass) but again not sure sure on that.

Of course that would be a reasonable thing to do, so instead they'll keep it from being voted on and do all sorts of tricks to make one side or the other look like the assholes while federal workers get the shaft and tip.

Hell heard one person on TV say it will take the public pressure to get the shutdown finished. If that were the case, it'd be safe to say the government is closed forever.

**Hocus Pocus** · 10-02-13, 10:03 PM

Telling you , call your rep tell em fuck you. Fuck all of them.

**CivilWars** · 10-02-13, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

That article pretty much agrees with Trigger though, it doesn't sound like the Labor Unions want to opt out, they want reforms to the bill and don't think it is perfect, but I didn't see any of them saying, "Kill it! Kill it with fire!"

Also worth pointing out the mandates (something the Labor Unions mention they were against, most employer) is supposedly the least like part of the bill.

The US healthcare paradox: we like the Affordable Care Act but fear Obamacare | Harry J Enten | Comment is free | theguardian.com

That was from a March 2013 poll in fairness, not sure what it is now or if anyone has done polling on it (have to look into it), but if it is true it makes the same point that people like parts of the ACA, they just want other parts gone or reformed. Though in this case they are talking about opting out more then the labor unions.

Lastly, I need to stop reading british forums or news, keep wanting to typing effing labour instead of labor.

Isn't that what even people on the left are saying the Reps are pushing for? To give us another year to get it right for everyone, not just a portion?

The latest Forbes article that Trigger linked said ONLY 1/3 want to kill it with fire, then glosses over that another 1/3 want to delay it to fix it, so ~2/3 are unhappy with the bill as it is written.

**Gumby** · 10-02-13, 10:18 PM

Regardless of your views on the ACA, if you vote for any incumbent in the next election, you're part of the problem. If you don't vote, you're part of the problem. That building needs an enema.

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**CivilWars** · 10-02-13, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Gumby

Regardless of your views on the ACA, if you vote for any incumbent in the next election, you're part of the problem. If you don't vote, you're part of the problem. That building needs an enema.

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I wish it were that simple, I truly do.

**Red_Lizard2** · 10-02-13, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Isn't that what even people on the left are saying the Reps are pushing for? To give us another year to get it right for everyone, not just a portion?

The latest Forbes article that Trigger linked said ONLY 1/3 want to kill it with fire, then glosses over that another 1/3 want to delay it to fix it, so ~2/3 are unhappy with the bill as it is written.

The Republicans aren't pushing for fixing it, they want the whole thing dead. Haven't they pretty much only tried passing legislation killing the ACA? At least until recently, saying only to delay it a year (which, I honestly think was only so they can say "We compromised, see! We didn't WANT to shut down the government!"). I can't even think off hand where I've heard them say lets fix it, I've just heard lets kill it. Maybe I've missed it though.

On the Forbes article, it say 33% for defund, delay, or repeal (though their crappy chart makes it look more like 31-32% but close enough), 29% fix it, 26% Implement it, and 12% go farther. The 29% doesn't mention delaying the law, so realistically it isn't possible to know how many want it delayed and fixed and how many want it to go into effect and fixed. Since it doesn't have to be delayed to be fixed. Can't find a poll that does actually break down how many want it fixed but not delayed and how many want it delayed and fixed.

Another interesting poll though, in looking for that, most as I surprised the % of Republicans that think the Republicans haven't done enough compromising/working with Obama. Mean anything in this conversation? Eh, maybe but just interesting in general:
National (US) Poll - October 1, 2013 - American Voters Reject GOP Shu | Quinnipiac University Connecticut

**Red_Lizard2** · 10-02-13, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by Hocus Pocus

Telling you , call your rep tell em fuck you. Fuck all of them.

My rep can't really do anything about it. And the senators here won't give a shit since I wouldn't vote for them anyways, they still have enough of a majority they can pretty much ignore anyone who isn't a potential vote for them.

**triggerhappy2005** · 10-03-13, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by Ranger10

So only those people who come up with it first is the only one that can have a voice on it?

No, my point was why the right have never cared to address the healthcare problem in America. It leads me to believe they are not sincere about the issue. Was any comprehensive healthcare legislation brought forward during the tenures of Reagan, Bush I or Bush II?