Thread: Nazi America.

Originally Posted by Bunni

Yeah except that those who enforces it are people, people have opinions, people have interpretations, people are not unbiased, people are not robots therefore there are two sides. You breeze over major points of how things are enforced, who enforces them, the laws that govern and how to balance them between empowering the citizens and keeping them incheck. Sure there is corruption, but its on both sides. Keep in mind, that prisions are filled and personally I'd take a corrupt politician over a murdering criminal in my neighborhood everyday.


It should be irrelevant, but it's far from it.You can have your cake and eat it too (i think this applies), you can't write off how and who's behind 'governement'

Also keep in mind that my all of my post was not referring to the op

They took a job saying they would enforce those laws not interpret them. I agree on your point but the simple truth is being human is not an excuse to abuse power. Which at the end of the day thats all this is. I will say part of the problem isnt real how they interpret the law as much as it was never really taught to them. They get sent out there after a fairly short amount of time with the hopes they have what they need when in reality they is no way they could. There are far to many laws for them to possibly understand with a brief stint in college. I would pose most of what they learn is from other officers so one gets it wrong and a thousand follow that example.

The military is great example to throw in with following the letter of the rules/laws. Police violate all the time and nothing happens. In the military you step over that line and you are far more likely to be punished. Im not saying either is perfect and mistakes of course will always happen but we need to start punishing across the board for infractions. I'm not even saying it should always carry a massive result but something with an escalation for repeat offenders because as it stands right now nothing is ever learned and thats pretty apparent in how often it happens.


Edit and i know it wasn't all for the op. I cherry picked what i responded to because its all i cared to discuss at the time.

Originally Posted by Bunni

That kind of smart alic stuff, i could totally understand and support an Officer losing their temper. Such analogous actions on TPG servers earn insta-bans which we as a community support. So what's the difference? Though I wager there is probably, sadly a delayed expression of aggravation (ie. they are on sore temper because of the two guys before you and are taking it out on you). If you make their job more difficult, expect an equivalent response.

GODDAMN YOU ARE LONG WINDED!

What's the difference between our servers and police asking for ID? Our servers are private property. We are the judge, jury and executioner on our servers. Cops asking for ID in the situations described, while not AGAINST the law, is directly contrary to the law which states you do not HAVE to show ID. Why do they even ask? They are pushing their boundaries and most people will simply roll over and do it.

I'm not going to say no most of the time either. But if I wanted to, for whatever reason, I have the right to do so. Maybe the cop is a prick. Maybe I feel he's profiling fat white balding guys and I am feeling discriminated against. Who knows... Who cares? The law doesn't care why I chose to say no and state only my name. It just says that I can.

As for carrying a weapon, heh, how any ANYONE but the carrier feel anything but uneasy seeing you carrying a firearm, especially in today's day and age of so many horrific firearm related misuses being milked by social media? What do you expect? Futheremore, given statistics no one here should honestly ask me to pull, if there is a fire fight, who's going to get targeted first? THOSE who pose RISK to the shooter, aka those who can return fire. So yeah, that Officer is sweating seeing you carring that 9mm because if you start shooting, you'll very likely be aiming at him first.

You'd be surprised. My boss was staying at a bed and breakfast in north carolina and that's an open carry state. He carries openly in states where he can, concealed in states where he can't, etc. One morning there was a to-do downstairs and turned out the Lieutenant Governor had flown in for a meet and greet with someone. My boss walked into the dining room with glock on hip in plain view. The lt gov's guards eyeballed him and ignored him as he walked up to and shook his hand. Some places people just... don't... care despite the media's persistent fear-mongering. You can walk into restaurants and gas stations and see people with guns on them all the time in open carry states. It just becomes a fact of life and something else you ignore.

Originally Posted by SmokenScion

How is public photography provoking police?

It's not, but you can't say that someone wouldn't consider that suspicious behavior. It's not like that guy was just hanging out and a cop just picked him at random cause he was profiling. He saw a person filming, he for some reason felt a little off by it, and wanted to make sure the guy wasn't casing the place out for an attack.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

They took a job saying they would enforce those laws not interpret them. I agree on your point but the simple truth is being human is not an excuse to abuse power. Which at the end of the day thats all this is. I will say part of the problem isnt real how they interpret the law as much as it was never really taught to them. They get sent out there after a fairly short amount of time with the hopes they have what they need when in reality they is no way they could. There are far to many laws for them to possibly understand with a brief stint in college. I would pose most of what they learn is from other officers so one gets it wrong and a thousand follow that example.

The military is great example to throw in with following the letter of the rules/laws. Police violate all the time and nothing happens. In the military you step over that line and you are far more likely to be punished. Im not saying either is perfect and mistakes of course will always happen but we need to start punishing across the board for infractions. I'm not even saying it should always carry a massive result but something with an escalation for repeat offenders because as it stands right now nothing is ever learned and thats pretty apparent in how often it happens.

How can you understand something without interpreting it? Even something as black and white as mathmatic's is interpreted to some degree. 10 + 1 is 11 sure, easy, but what about 11/0 or 0/11, or more complex where sqrt(-1)*x, that's were interpretation really becomes evident. In fact there are many different algebraic systems which have conflicting interpretations of the same exact equations all of which result in some very different answers. But in order to answer them myself, I must interpret...

Yeah your second point is very true, but given the pay rate, risk, and nature of the profession, its hard to require too much without changing the pay rate, risk, or nature.


Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't matters where the military called-in / present, usually much more narrow in field of laws needed to be known, than law enforcement needs to know (in otherwords police officers need to know and exercise their knowledge of a far greater number of laws than military when active)? The law behind the OP is a good example, what to do in that situation would require a huge amount of law studying before hand. Lawyers get the opportunity to look things up, Judges review policies before cases, but Officers are expected to know so much off hand. :S As you mention it's not unreasonable they might misinterpret / incorrectly recall something, especially like this, not to mention they are strictly regulated in how they can interact with individuals, asking for id might be a way they were engaging the individual, or perhaps baiting. Wrong, yes, terrible, no. But as you say, they learn by peer-to-peer, we had something similar happen in CSS here at TPG with the misunderstanding that resulted in "diffuse or die trying".

Actually, you bring up an excellent point with peer-to-peer learning without being punished for misdoings, however, think of medicine. If we punished doctors for every time they made a mistake at the start of their career, we'd have no doctors left. And personally I'd rather have more confident officers making mistakes which error on the side of caution rather than timid officers who's fears cause inaction...

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Edit and i know it wasn't all for the op. I cherry picked what i responded to because its all i cared to discuss at the time.

Damn it! I knew I shouldn't have posted until I proof read my argument. My posts are usually much more bullet proof but by the time I post, the thread is usually locked and I am left with another drafted response gone to waste

Originally Posted by Kanati8869

GODDAMN YOU ARE LONG WINDED!

What's the difference between our servers and police asking for ID? Our servers are private property. We are the judge, jury and executioner on our servers. Cops asking for ID in the situations described, while not AGAINST the law, is directly contrary to the law which states you do not HAVE to show ID. Why do they even ask?

Eh, that's what's litterally different. What's different in the situation we are examining: rules being enforced by those in power to do so and being given grief when doing so? Look at the whole fiasco with our old misunderstanding in css of "diffuse or die trying".

Originally Posted by Kanati8869

They are pushing their boundaries and most people will simply roll over and do it.

I don't think the world is sold on doing what it's told, just quite yet. If it was something more serious a lot more would be actively antagonistic.

Originally Posted by Kanati8869

I'm not going to say no most of the time either. But if I wanted to, for whatever reason, I have the right to do so. Maybe the cop is a prick. Maybe I feel he's profiling fat white balding guys and I am feeling discriminated against. Who knows... Who cares? The law doesn't care why I chose to say no and state only my name. It just says that I can.

The law doesn't, but the officer who's asking does. Their opinion should not be relevant, but it, is, and that fact will never change as so long as the people who enforce the law, are people. People have shitty days, people have tempers, however some people with tempers who are having shitty days are also given the power to enforce the laws, best not make they're days unjustifiably more difficult because you are feeling rebellious. Either way, I'll personally rarely fault someone for erring on the side of caution.

Originally Posted by Kanati8869

You'd be surprised. My boss was staying at a bed and breakfast in north carolina and that's an open carry state. He carries openly in states where he can, concealed in states where he can't, etc. One morning there was a to-do downstairs and turned out the Lieutenant Governor had flown in for a meet and greet with someone. My boss walked into the dining room with glock on hip in plain view. The lt gov's guards eyeballed him and ignored him as he walked up to and shook his hand. Some places people just... don't... care despite the media's persistent fear-mongering. You can walk into restaurants and gas stations and see people with guns on them all the time in open carry states. It just becomes a fact of life and something else you ignore.

The LT's gov trained guards to be guards? If they appear to not care about someone walking up with a firearm, then they are that confident that if that individual draws they can disarm him without shots fired, otherwise they are shitty guards if they don't care about someone approaching their VIP with a firearm. Eh, acceptance does not mean at ease. Personally, i live in NC and have NEVER seen a civilan openly carrying and if I did, would be uneasy to say the least.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

[...]
We can use other fields as examples if you wish but my understanding of some will be at best limited. I did make a ceramic panther once. Ok i painted it and someone else did everything else but i bet i could interpret the entire process.

No need for other fields. Not yet, at least. I wasn't trying to contest your position. I was only curious if you saw the same issues I did.

Also, and completely unrelated, I keep a collection of words and phrases that have a particular sound or create an interesting image. It's sort of like a drawer of spare parts that I dig into whenever I'm writing but can't find a piece I need.

This:

Ceramic Panther

... is now in the collection. I'm going to be tasting the sound of that all day.


Æ

Ceramic Panther would be a great cheesy band name.