Thread: EBT Cards

Originally Posted by dex71

I'd rather take a look at the old data, and see where it's gone wrong. If you honestly believe that the Welfare/Food Stamp/EBT program is not flooded with abuse, you need to look closer. Data collected by the same people who set up the programs is worthless. Sure, there are many who don't abuse it, but many many more who do. A drive into the rougher part of your town will open your eyes when you see all of the places that take them, and what people are allowed to buy with them.

Originally Posted by Nuckle

I also think the abuse is much greater than reported. It is not being policed at all in my opinion. I think its cool to want to help people, hell I want to help people.

The only data that I need to see is A. The unemployment rate and B. The number of companies that are hiring.

I also see escalades, bmw's and Cadillacs parked in front of the government assistance housing here in Birmingham.

Where is the data anyway? How many people are receiving this benefit? Actually how many are receiving this benefit and that one and the other one and you know that other deal. We have people making a career off the back of those that work hard. Where is the data?

My question is this, why are you of the opposite opinion so trusting? Why is it that you think it so isolated? Lastly why are we not physically taking these people on welfare down to the people looking for employees and helping them fill out an application?

Welfare reform and how I think it should be structured will be my next topic. Grab some popcorn.

Where is the data? Is it old? Is it new?

There is lots of it. The stuff that I have had most recent access to is here:

Panel Study of Income Dynamics - Home

Wikipedia offers a decent overview:

Panel Study of Income Dynamics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are other data sets that can help you get (really good) estimates of fraud. There are other ways to judge efficacy. Though their data isn't necessary to get a good picture of what goes on, some agencies publish very credible data. It is, sadly, no longer my thing. My biggest frustration with that work was this:

Nobody who matters gives a damn about facts.

Almost nobody, anyway. One youtube video, one FauxNews 'report', or one well-placed voter who sees instances of abuse, is way more influential to the policy process than anything even remotely based on rigorous observation or analysis.

The people who use these programs the way they're meant to be used go out of their way to be anonymous. They're not necessarily shamed, but they take the hand-up that's available and work hard to make the best of it. They make for terrible news stories. They are boring and unexceptional. They don't make music videos.

Nuckle: I don't know if my opinions are 'opposite' of yours, or anyone else's for that matter, but I am absolutely not trusting about any of this. People absolutely do take advantage. Many of them get-away-with-it when they can. The most important thing about making help available is to make sure that it doesn't encourage abuse or dependency. Getting the incentives pointed in the right direction is key.

Abuse happens everywhere. I've seen dash-cam videos of insurance-fraud scams. But I don't think that most people are engaged in insurance fraud, and I don't think that most people who buy products in the insurance market are criminals.

There are people who physically take 'these people' down to employment agencies and help them fill out an application. They earn much less than their intelligence or their education could command, and they take shit all the time from people who have nothing better to do than spend their free time blaming all the world's ills on the poor.

I have never met someone who was in any way associated with these types of programs who wasn't interested in ways to cut down on fraud or to encourage better choices from participants. I'm sure they'd love to hear your ideas.

Originally Posted by dex71

Plus.....There is no way the music could be any more horrible.

Agreed.

Although I do find that challenging people to be more horrible is often a losing proposition. I don't want to find out that she actually was capable of producing something even worse.

Cheers,


AetheLove

There is no accurate data on the amount of fraud because it's not investigated. EBT cards, and the lack of enforcement of their use have more to do with buying votes than they do with buying bread. There is more motivation to allow the system to be abused than there is to fix it.

Originally Posted by dex71

There is no accurate data on the amount of fraud because it's not investigated. EBT cards, and the lack of enforcement of their use have more to do with buying votes than they do with buying bread. There is more motivation to allow the system to be abused than there is to fix it.

I'm trying to find data that supports what you say or that refutes it, while staying away from say Rachel Maddow or Breitbart. So far, what I can find suggests that EBT cards have reduced corruption. Help me out, point me to non-anecdotal evidence to sway me. There are studies out there on this subject that I can find, they just don't match up with what you're saying. I'd like to understand the disconnect.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Trying to find proof of illegal activity is like trying to get a true number of illegals. No one is going to admit to either for a survey.

OK, if you say so. Am I to assume that only surveys can be used to study an issue like this?

So I tried looking at the link you posted for stats, and I am not smart enough to sort through their data. I did do a google search for EBT fraud and found many interesting links. Granted, on most of them they claim that the fraud rate is small, and I would agree in many cases it may be, but here is the part where I tend to agree with DG.

I-Team: Millions Of Dollars In Mass. Welfare Benefits Spent Out Of State « CBS Boston

In this story they talk about MA benefits being used all over the US. They report on $4.5M used in FLORIDA alone. I have no clue what the total benefits were that were paid out during this timeframe, so it may indeed be a very small percentage, but here is my favorite part. Before this investigation the state had not cancelled any benefits for out of state usage, but since they have cancelled over 3,000. That tells me that you don't really know how big the problem is until someone else takes the time to point it out to you. Do we really believe there were no issues prior to this investigation?