Texas Board of Education and the Re-writing of American History

**SmokenSherriff_** · 02-16-10, 01:26 AM

Regardless of the situation in Texas; many of you seem to enjoy touting your one sided view of the situation. It is not one religion that played a role in the founding of our nation but a "faith in God". Whether that manifests through Lutheren, Catholic, Pentecostal, etc, is another story. The overwhelming majority of the founding fathers found their inspiration for this great nation, including self liberty, personal responsibility, hard work, from their faith in God. One God, not Muhamed or Zeus, but the God in the Bible. Law is founded on the teachings of the Bible and almost all ideas for nation building (America) are rooted in the Bible in some manner. The God in the Bible and his son Jesus' teachings were what this great nation are founded upon.

Almost all of the early settlers except for prisoners had the shared belief in the ONE God in the bible. It leads to the settling of this country and its westward expansion. Propagating the gospel, wrong or right in your view was the single thing that allowed us to live with the Indians. People with good intentions but perhaps over zealous in their approach, regardless you cant deny it was these folks that founded this nation. There are countless books and facts that support that this nation was founded by men being led by and following the teachings of GOD and his son Jesus. Argue its validity in your opinion all you want in that all beliefs cannot be proven and purposely require faith.

However you can not deny that this country America's success or failure was because of a belief in the Lord.
And it just happened to become the greatest nation ever created for a really long time and I hope while scared it stays this way for a really long time to come. Its greatness can be attributed to its ideas, beliefs, values that are all connected to GOD. All these people are wanting to do is bring us back to these things that made us great, that yes where based on the teachings of God. It isnt a coincidence that the state of our nation is rocky at best and the state of our values, ideas, and beliefs are farther away from the teachings of God then they have ever been as a nation as a whole.

Look I cant tell you Gods real or prove to you anything particluar about any religion. I have my own trials/faults to worry about you. What I can prove is what the United States was founded on. Christianity. All the various religions yes, but a common belief in God teachings and Jesus Christ his son. I cannot prove this to you with Japan or India or France, because the facts arent there to support it. But it is a Fact in the United States.

So if we are gonna talk about "HISTORY" then its only right to call it like it was. If it caters to the way you believe great tough for me, if it caters to the way I believe then tough for you. However it isnt about whether you believe its validity or not its about the fact that THIS nation was founded on it. Dont like it then find another country founded on the beliefs that fit you. But here it was a belief in GOD, the Alpha and Omega, the Creator, and without it there would be no America as we know it today. PERIOD. It was our foundation... so carry on with your situational ethics and feel good world views that our country is about Toleration etc. your sadly mistaken. Oh and civil's kids i have a feeling will turn out just fine, i have a feeling he wont keep the facts from them and like me will let them believe as they want but we WILL keep the facts straight.

Thats all they are trying to do with the history books here, it isnt rewritten, it was "rewritten" along time ago, they are just returning it back to its less politically correct state, as there is no place for political correctness in HISTORY. This isnt about what I think or what you think its about the facts. This is one area im ready to battle. :6

Smoke

**Tuck** · 02-16-10, 02:42 AM

You're doing some re-writing of history yourself. You are overstating the Christian element in the men who helped shape the nation's foundational documents, and its role in the success this nation has had since its creation. You cannot re-write primary sources, which is what the vast majority of today's accepted history, aside from pure chronological events, is based on. The mysticism of religious influence in America's rise to greatness and power is not nearly so mythical in nature as you personally perceive; there are reasons we are what we are and some are not pretty and most have little or nothing to do with God. Basic history books by no means ignore God when going through chronological history of the U.S., especially the earlier parts, but they don't broadly overstate God's influence like you either, and the writers make a conscious attempt not to engage children with material that is spurious, controversial, and complex at best, and simply unsubstantiated at worst. There is more than enough and more important aspects of basic history to teach grade schoolers without offering conjecture as to the religious implications or motivations of every action taken throughout our history.
It is dangerous to oversimplify the issue of God and religion in the U.S., and as such, this complex of an issue is best saved for advanced high school electives, college course topics, or pointed personal study. It absolutely cannot be honestly or properly tackled by grade school children or your average high schooler trying to learn the basics of 6 or 7 different disciplines; you'd be lucky if they even remembered what Jamestown was, or could name more than 3 "founding fathers".
All of these are reasons why the proposals of the Texas BoE are foolish and borderline dangerous.

**SapiensErus** · 02-16-10, 08:39 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundin...tates#Religion

Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Some of the 1787 delegates had no affiliation. The others were Protestants except for three Roman Catholics: C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons. Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (Episcopalian, after the Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists, the total number being 49. Some of the more prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical or vocal about their opposition to organized religion, such as Thomas Jefferson[12][13] (who created the "Jefferson Bible"), and Benjamin Franklin[14]. However, other notable founders, such as Patrick Henry, were strong proponents of traditional religion. Several of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be deists or held beliefs very similar to that of deists.[15]

**~~hawgballs~~** · 02-16-10, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Novel idea, YOU teach your kids what you think is truth, and dont rely on someone else.

Not too ideal.... Considering the level of ignorance of a lot of people, we would have a bunch of homeschooled Bobby Boucher's running around.......

**CivilWars** · 02-16-10, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by hawgballs

Originally Posted by CivilWars

Novel idea, YOU teach your kids what you think is truth, and dont rely on someone else.

Not too ideal.... Considering the level of ignorance of a lot of people, we would have a bunch of homeschooled Bobby Boucher's running around.......

So if our education system is so grand why are they "ignorant"? And if our education system is at least partially to blame for said "ignorance" then how does putting their kids through the same program prevent "ignorance"?

**~~hawgballs~~** · 02-16-10, 11:14 AM

I don't know civil. But what I do know is that to abolish public education, because it isn't perfect would be even more idiotic than what that BoE is trying pass off as history.

Face it, homeschooling is NOT the answer. And privatizing every school would only guarantee to lower the number of minimally educated citizens. Because some, probably most, will not be able to afford private schooling. I get it, that you might not want a standard of education set, but you might be in the minority, or probably never really considered the consequences of such an asinine idea.

**Pint** · 02-16-10, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by SmokenSherriff_

Regardless of the situation in Texas; many of you seem to enjoy touting your one sided view of the situation. It is not one religion that played a role in the founding of our nation but a "faith in God". Whether that manifests through Lutheren, Catholic, Pentecostal, etc, is another story. The overwhelming majority of the founding fathers found their inspiration for this great nation, including self liberty, personal responsibility, hard work, from their faith in God. One God, not Muhamed or Zeus, but the God in the Bible. Law is founded on the teachings of the Bible and almost all ideas for nation building (America) are rooted in the Bible in some manner. The God in the Bible and his son Jesus' teachings were what this great nation are founded upon.

Let me know where the chapter in the bible is that says how to build a country. Law is not founded on the teachings of the bible in anyway shape or form. If that statement is true then the Chinese would not of had lawful societies as early as 5,000 BC and they were definitely there by 2,100 BC, BC means before christ BTW. Also that would be 600+ years before any kind of "bible" was made (cool fact is Job is the oldest book in the bible, moses wrote genesis right around 1,500-1,400 or so) The law in the bible, especially the old testament is no where near what any of our laws are based off of, unless your saying bible says killing is bad, and so do we hence a connection. Very silly idea.

Almost all of the early settlers except for prisoners had the shared belief in the ONE God in the bible. It leads to the settling of this country and its westward expansion. Propagating the gospel, wrong or right in your view was the single thing that allowed us to live with the Indians. People with good intentions but perhaps over zealous in their approach, regardless you cant deny it was these folks that founded this nation.

Of course the criminals weren't christians at all. Smirk. Religion helped us get along with the Indians like this, "come out with your hands up and jesus in your heart or we open fire" it really worked, can't deny that, those Indians got put in there place.

There are countless books and facts that support that this nation was founded by men being led by and following the teachings of GOD and his son Jesus. Argue its validity in your opinion all you want in that all beliefs cannot be proven and purposely require faith.

Countless in the sense that there is nothing to count. Yes the majority of the colonists were christians, most of Europe was as well so that kind of makes sense since they all come from there? Yes faith requires faith, and I too made a sentence that makes no sense.

However you can not deny that this country America's success or failure was because of a belief in the Lord.
And it just happened to become the greatest nation ever created for a really long time and I hope while scared it stays this way for a really long time to come. Its greatness can be attributed to its ideas, beliefs, values that are all connected to GOD. All these people are wanting to do is bring us back to these things that made us great, that yes where based on the teachings of God. It isnt a coincidence that the state of our nation is rocky at best and the state of our values, ideas, and beliefs are farther away from the teachings of God then they have ever been as a nation as a whole.

I don't even know where to start. Many of the founding fathers were raised christians but no few of them were not what we would call church going religious. Belief in god? Yes. More Deistic then christians. Here are some Benjermine Franklin quotes,

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies."

Thomas Jefferson did not believe jesus was divine at all. According to T.J. jesus was a guy who had some really good ideas, not the son of anything other then Mary and who ever she lied to her husband about. We have separation of church and state because these guys had a say in it and had no love for the organized religion of the time. I do not take from T.J. that he was a card carrying atheist, but he was far from a christian. Benjamin Franklin was the concious of the founding fathers time and time again, a Puritan for sure in his moral convictions and a Christian, but not a church going bible quoting type.

The bible is roughly 5/6ths old testament and the rest the new testament. Nothing jesus taught that is good is an original idea, the golden rule concept was 450 years old when jesus said it, Confucius got it first half a world away. My point is the bible might give some framework to being a good person, but it is not unique, and is actually sub par compared to other writings during the time of its authorship. It is not the reason why these men who made our country were as great as they were, they were great because they applied critical thought to how an ideal country would be and then tried their damnedest to implemented it.

So if we are gonna talk about "HISTORY" then its only right to call it like it was. If it caters to the way you believe great tough for me, if it caters to the way I believe then tough for you. However it isnt about whether you believe its validity or not its about the fact that THIS nation was founded on it. Dont like it then find another country founded on the beliefs that fit you. But here it was a belief in GOD, the Alpha and Omega, the Creator, and without it there would be no America as we know it today. PERIOD. It was our foundation... so carry on with your situational ethics and feel good world views that our country is about Toleration etc. your sadly mistaken. Oh and civil's kids i have a feeling will turn out just fine, i have a feeling he wont keep the facts from them and like me will let them believe as they want but we WILL keep the facts straight.

Read the Bill of Rights and then tell me where in the bible any of those ten concepts came from. Your arguement is absolute nonsense. They believed in god, and as such we are good because of it. The bible showed us the way, give me a break smokin.

Thats all they are trying to do with the history books here, it isnt rewritten, it was "rewritten" along time ago, they are just returning it back to its less politically correct state, as there is no place for political correctness in HISTORY. This isnt about what I think or what you think its about the facts. This is one area im ready to battle. :6

Please do. This is child's play.

PoB

PS It occurred to after I finished my retort that what you wrote reads like an acceptance speech for the country music or R&B single of the year Grammy. Like they didn't get that because the had an innate talent and a whole shit load of hard work.

**CivilWars** · 02-16-10, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by hawgballs

I don't know civil. But what I do know is that to abolish public education, because it isn't perfect would be even more idiotic than what that BoE is trying pass off as history.

Face it, homeschooling is NOT the answer. And privatizing every school would only guarantee to lower the number of minimally educated citizens. Because some, probably most, will not be able to afford private schooling. I get it, that you might not want a standard of education set, but you might be in the minority, or probably never really considered the consequences of such an asinine idea.

No, what I AM considering is that I, and my wife, chose to be parents. The state of Texas, nor the US government, decided to MAKE us be parents. I am not an advocate of making everyone homeschool, or even privatizing education. I am ALL FOR more PERSONAL responsibility out of our citizens, and less reliance on government reliance. If you don't want to raise kids, then novel idea, don't have any. Oh wait, we have that under control now that we teach sex ed, right?

**CivilWars** · 02-16-10, 11:24 AM

As for the OP, my guess is that based on the fact that so many kids drop out, so many more don't pay attention, and even more just get passed on even if they don't know the material so that the current teacher doesn't have to deal with them anymore I don't think many students will be affected.

**Potemkine** · 02-16-10, 11:27 AM

Or COTUS for that matter. Pretty sure any kind of Diety is not referenced. THE ONLY time a Diety is mentioned, and its in passing mind you, is in the Deceleration of Independence. The DoI has no legal standing in our government what so ever. The DoI has about as much legal standing as a Proclamation from a local government, state legislature or Congress for job well done. It means absolutely jack shit.