Thread: Israel and the Palestinians to resume direct talks

And if those terrorist would put on a uniform and get out of the civilian population and fight like real mean, then their wouldn't be any more collateral damages to civilians...... But, they are cowards and don't care if the innocent people get hurt, actually they want them to get hurt for their propaganda purposes.

Wait, are we talking about the American revolution now?

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

It is world recognized that Iran is the #1 state sponsor of terrorism. Deny it all you want, but every one else in this world knows that it is true.

I never affirmed or denied that. I was saying that you realize that recognized states can still commit acts of terrorism. You were talking about the government of Israel being recognized as if that mean something substantial, when it does not.

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

Israel has been fighting terrorist and that is who they were referring too, not the civilians and you know it, but you want to spin it. Militant groups. Hamas and Fatah.

Fatah is not a terrorist group, but the reason Hamas has any political power is the direct result of Israeli policy. Israel has to only look in the mirror to see who is to blame for the existence of groups like Hamas. But they will be damned if they ever change their policy to encourage peace...

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

I never said Israel was perfect... I am sure a rule got bent somewhere when you are having to deal with terrorist attacking you every day. And then to tie their hands with a bunch of silly rules that they terrorist are not playing by, right on, just like anybody else and even us, sometimes mistakes are accidents.

A bent rule? Really? That's all you can say? Then you want to say I am the one with extreme views. I'm not the one completely ignoring fact-finding reports like the Goldstone report because it doesn't fit in with my view of how Israel behaves. You do not see me defending groups like Hamas that commit heinous crimes, but apparently you think it is ok when "your side" does it.

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

Israel did not say they control the USA, you spun that way out of context too.

Netanyahu did. The current Prime Minister. How am I spinning it out of context? Why don't you so kindly explain to me the context, since you seem to clearly understand Netanyahu's intentions. I think the words speak for themselves.

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

And if those terrorist would put on a uniform and get out of the civilian population and fight like real mean, then their wouldn't be any more collateral damages to civilians...... But, they are cowards and don't care if the innocent people get hurt, actually they want them to get hurt for their propaganda purposes.

So Israel obliges? They figure since you believe Hamas and groups like it want civilians to get hurt, that it makes it ok? You believe Israel should sink to the level of terrorist groups? Well, they already have, but for you to advocate that is kind of sick. You'd think Israel would try and be the better country, guess not. It's not the fault of civilians and you cannot blame their deaths on anyone else when Israel is the one who kills them. Let's say someone is robbing a bank and holding hostages, are you saying you would be ok with the police going in shooting at everything that moves, civilians be damned, just because there is one bad guy in there? And there is documented evidence of Israeli soldiers using Palestinians as human shields, too, so they really are just as bad as the militants they are fighting.

War isn't pretty.... I never said that Israel did not bend any rules or adapt to the situation they were faced in. Better do a little more research on Palestian terrorist groups and I think you will find Fatah under the previous leader was designated a terrorist group. They now have a leader that is trying to change the way, although stubborn and tired. His heart goes to his people and I admire that. He also turned that terrorist faction into a part of the government and took control over them and knocked out alot of the non-sense and I commend him for this.

Like I said earlier, when you are fighting a terrorist group, not uniformed and blending in to the civilian population and attacking from the civilian population, somebody innocent is going to get hurt, that is just a fact of war, no matter what extent you go to avoid it, which is the case.

You want it to get peaceful, that daily attacks on Israel must stop or Israel is going to make them pay. The attacks must stop.

So must the settlements.....but they aren't.

Whoops... meant to say 'community centers.'

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

War isn't pretty.... I never said that Israel did not bend any rules or adapt to the situation they were faced in.

Yet you unquestioningly defend every one of their actions. You never see me defending Hamas', or any militant Islamic group for that matter, actions. Seems like an awfully extreme view to me...

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

Better do a little more research on Palestian terrorist groups and I think you will find Fatah under the previous leader was designated a terrorist group. They now have a leader that is trying to change the way, although stubborn and tired. His heart goes to his people and I admire that. He also turned that terrorist faction into a part of the government and took control over them and knocked out alot of the non-sense and I commend him for this.

No government classifies Fatah as a terrorist group any more, so to call them a terrorist group is wrong. They may have been in the past, but they are not now, and that's what I said.

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

Like I said earlier, when you are fighting a terrorist group, not uniformed and blending in to the civilian population and attacking from the civilian population, somebody innocent is going to get hurt, that is just a fact of war, no matter what extent you go to avoid it, which is the case.

And that gives them the right to target civilians? I see you convienently ignored my analogy, too. Collateral damage is one thing, but when you are slaughtering more civilians than militants, something isn't right. Enough with all the lame excuses, you're becoming a stooge. Can't I get you to at the very least admit that they could take better care in how and which targets they choose to hit? I'm not asking you to completely agree with me, but we both should be able to agree that Israel was wrong for shelling a hospital, for example, just like we can agree Hamas is wrong for shooting rockets. If we can't even agree there, well, then I am most definitely not the one with the extreme views...

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

You want it to get peaceful, that daily attacks on Israel must stop or Israel is going to make them pay. The attacks must stop.

And they won't stop until Israel changes their oppressive policies toward Palestinians and recognize their sovereignty. You pretend like Israel is just an innocent victim here, they are not. Their actions and policies are a direct cause of these terrorist attacks. They refuse to do anything that may bring about peace and they always break their promises. Hell, they are still building settlements, so why would some Palestinian extremists stop when their land is continually getting stolen? What you are asking for is everyone but Israel to stop doing what they are doing, and that's ridiculous.

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

I cannot agree with you about shelling a hospital. One, I am not sure if I know which event you are talking about, hell Israel shelled a UN OUTPOST.... Reason being, is they were using that building as a base to launch Rockets and mortars, so it is a legit target. Same with a hospital, if they hospital doesn't allow them to use it as a base, and it does get used as a base to launch attacks from, then them and the building is a legit target. You can't just let them sling those mortars at will into the population just because it is coming from a hospital.

What you mean to say is that the militants took over the hospital and were using it as a base and it was destroyed and the mortars stopped at that point.

Figures. Yet you are the pot calling the kettle black. A few snippets about different attacks:
"Three members of UN staff were injured when three Israeli shells hit the headquarters, setting it on fire. Thousands of tonnes of desperately needed food and humanitarian supplies were destroyed and about 700 refugees given shelter in the building had to be evacuated. UN officials said the shells were white phosphorus, believed to have been responsible for burns suffered by some Palestinian civilians."

"John Ging, the director of operations for the UN relief agency, UNRWA, in Gaza described the Israeli claim about a Hamas presence as "nonsense". He added: "It's a total disaster for us." Mr Ging said the UN had warned the Israelis the compound was in danger from shelling that had begun overnight, and provided them with GPS co-ordinates to prevent an attack."

"The Al-Quds hospital was also hit by shellfire when Israeli tanks moved further into the city. A tower housing the Reuters agency and other media outlets was also hit. The International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies said the damage caused to the Al Quds hospital is "completely and utterly unacceptable based on every known standard of international humanitarian law".

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-14143191.html

I'm far more inclined to believe UN officials over a country with a sketchy human rights record trying to cover its ass.

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

And, Israel does not target civilians..... that's just a dumb statement. If it were the case, it would kill a few thousand a day, until they were gone.

They go to great expense not to harm civilians but when you have a terrorist organization operating from the civilian structures and homes, guess what, they ain't safe no more.

Spare me the propaganda, please. Clearly they are not going to go out of their way to kill a bunch of Palestinians. That's far to obvious. But all you have to do is look at the death toll of the Gaza War. Look at their intentional shelling of schools, hospitals, UN facilities, UN convoys, etc. Look at their use of white phospherous against civilians. Go ahead, though, keep your head in the sand all you want. If they are not intentionally targeting civilians, they are extremely careless to the point of being negligent. This is the third time you have ignored my analogy, too.

Originally Posted by ***COMMANDER***

As far a Fatah, Israel targeted Hamas and their infastructure. They did not target Hamas and you spun the prime ministers statements and forgot to be clear on who they were targeting and made it sound as if Israel was targeting the people and not the militants.... Off the wall and extreme to think this or ignorant of the situation.

How did I spin anything? I just posted his words. Here I am condemning attacks by Hamas and other groups on Israel, and attacks by Israel on innocent Palestinians, and you want to say I am extreme and ignorant? All while you keep trying to justified every Israeli action? You're a patsy, a stooge. You swallow anything the Israeli government feeds you as truth and then regurgitates it here. You think they are a perfect country who just "bends" the rules once every great while and refuse to admit they do anything wrong. That's naivety and ignorance at it's best, yet you hypocritically try and label ME as extreme and ignorant?

Man i cant wait until dumb ordnance is guided directly to target uneffected by nature. Until that time the relitively few items you can come up with fovezer can be attributed to inaccuracy. The rest can be attributed to yet an unbelieve thing like terrorists dont wear uniforms. Makes it kind of hard to say they weren't or were with any where near 100% accuracy. Thats the very reason they dont wear them because even they are smart enough to know it is to their advantage to not wear them. In a crowd their are concealed and after shot they were civilians. At least by the time the picture is taken they are.