Thread: Possible vote on the Dream Act within a week

Originally Posted by Fovezer

What do you mean hijacked? By what, exactly? I'm curious.

That statement or term basically stems from a lot frustration I have with our education system. Not college or university specifically, but the system as a whole.

WARNING!!!!!!-------!!!!!!!!ANECDOTAL ACCOUNT!!!!!-------!!!!!!WARNING (this concludes the PSA on anecdotes - read further at your periiiiiiiiiil)
Take my education for example.... I was born in Louisiana and lived there until I went to the 6th grade. At that point, I moved to Florida. I completed high school and went to a university in Florida. Neither of those states are traditional "paragons of educational excellence". However, I was ahead of the game of the students in Florida. And when I got into college, I was again ahead of the game in terms of general knowledge amongst most of my classmates (who were largely from the NE). However, with that said - I went to school with some pretty fucking sharp people. Very few douche bags or mouth breathers in the bunch.

My Opinion on the matter:
Fast forward a few years and I've got a good career and a family and etc etc. I have the pleasure of trying to educate my children nightly. Why? Because the education that they are receiving in tax payer funded school (just like what I attended) is so woefully inadequate. The education system has lost focus, IMO, on teaching basic fundamental aspects of the core curriculum (Math, Language Arts, History and Science). The school seems to be spending more and more time attempting to measure the knowledge levels of the children in the school and less and less time actually educating the children therefore increasing their knowledge. Which, if you think about it works out perfectly in the schools' favor. If their funding is based off of measuring the knowledge level on covered material...then a perfect way to artificially raise the perceived knowledge level is to lower the amount of material covered and simply spend the bulk of time rehashing and reviewing that smaller subset. Another example would our 12 yo. She's in 7th grade and is arguably a very bright young girl (I know I am biased on that count - bear with me). However, each night when I am asking the kids what they did in school all day and what types of things have they covered....there is a dearth of topics. I am talking flatline from an informational standpoint. She is a straight A student with perfect attendance. I can't complain about her. However, the gaps in her education are startling and large enough to drive the proverbial Mac truck through. They are unprepared for higher learning. And if this is what the high school experience will be for them as well, I know that they are unprepared for that. We had our 16yo niece living with us for almost a year. She is another straight A student in high school. Also very bright, intellectually. Very often, and I am talking 1-2 times a week, she'd relate to us over dinner that she napped in class. Why? Because the teacher (not even a substitute) would put a movie on in the class. I'd ask her if the movie was related to class in some way. Nope. Any paper or report due on it? Nope. Teacher just put a movie on for the fuck of it apparently.

Yet, a common complaint from the school boards is that they don't have enough time to cover the material, enough money to afford supplies, enough teachers to teach the students, etc etc. When in actuality, if they cut the random "Teacher Planning" days, or "Teacher In-Service" days and actually taught some shit instead of watching fucking Twilight in Social Studies class, and stopped funding in class "vending" machines so that the kids could snack in class, and just do nothing but fucking teach they might actually realize that they have time for it. It isn't a lack of resources. It is a lack of resource management and accountability.

So, yeah, hijacked....it's been hijacked by special projects and special interests and special touchy feely policies and in the end there is nothing coming out of the schools that is special from an educational standpoint. The really intelligent ones are held up and stagnate waiting for the less intelligent ones mainly because it might hurt someone's feelings. The less intelligent ones aren't pulled aside and given targeted help to get them moving in sync with the curriculum as that might, again, hurt their feelings. No one wants to hurt anybody's feelings and the fact of the matter is that once these kids get out into the world, the first person who fires them for being a dumb fuck is going to hurt their damn feelings.

Then you get to college/university. Aw geez here we go....How many of you, by show of hands (Kraker put your hand down), know people or went to college with people that had no earthly business being in college. Either they were not intelligent enough to be there. Or they were not mature enough to be there. Just there cause someone told them that college was the "only" way. That "college' was mandatory for some unknown reason. I know plenty and I went to school with a few. Did the education do them any good? Likely not. College, too, has been "hijacked" by those in the business of sending people to college and collecting loan revenue in perpetuity. What is wrong with directing someone who is less "apt" (whether that is based on grades and aptitude tests or simply on expressed desire) into a vocational education that will actually benefit them and whatever community they reside in? Why does a vocational education get such a bad rep in the states. If I am not mistaken, Germany has a multifaceted approach to higher education and one of those facets is comprised of the university type system and another is vocational or geared towards a trade. I am sure that there are some people on this forum with no college education, but who have a vocational education and therefore mastery of a trade who make a better living than a lot of the college graduates out there.

I know that this is a rambling rant....but you asked an honest question and I wanted to at least give some response to it. I'd pull stats if I needed to, but since I am living the disappointment nightly in our educational system with 4 kids in the system now, I don't feel like I have to.

Originally Posted by Alundil

That statement or term basically stems from a lot frustration I have with our education system. Not college or university specifically, but the system as a whole.

WARNING!!!!!!-------!!!!!!!!ANECDOTAL ACCOUNT!!!!!-------!!!!!!WARNING (this concludes the PSA on anecdotes - read further at your periiiiiiiiiil)
Take my education for example.... I was born in Louisiana and lived there until I went to the 6th grade. At that point, I moved to Florida. I completed high school and went to a university in Florida. Neither of those states are traditional "paragons of educational excellence". However, I was ahead of the game of the students in Florida. And when I got into college, I was again ahead of the game in terms of general knowledge amongst most of my classmates (who were largely from the NE). However, with that said - I went to school with some pretty fucking sharp people. Very few douche bags or mouth breathers in the bunch.

My Opinion on the matter:
Fast forward a few years and I've got a good career and a family and etc etc. I have the pleasure of trying to educate my children nightly. Why? Because the education that they are receiving in tax payer funded school (just like what I attended) is so woefully inadequate. The education system has lost focus, IMO, on teaching basic fundamental aspects of the core curriculum (Math, Language Arts, History and Science). The school seems to be spending more and more time attempting to measure the knowledge levels of the children in the school and less and less time actually educating the children therefore increasing their knowledge. Which, if you think about it works out perfectly in the schools' favor. If their funding is based off of measuring the knowledge level on covered material...then a perfect way to artificially raise the perceived knowledge level is to lower the amount of material covered and simply spend the bulk of time rehashing and reviewing that smaller subset. Another example would our 12 yo. She's in 7th grade and is arguably a very bright young girl (I know I am biased on that count - bear with me). However, each night when I am asking the kids what they did in school all day and what types of things have they covered....there is a dearth of topics. I am talking flatline from an informational standpoint. She is a straight A student with perfect attendance. I can't complain about her. However, the gaps in her education are startling and large enough to drive the proverbial Mac truck through. They are unprepared for higher learning. And if this is what the high school experience will be for them as well, I know that they are unprepared for that. We had our 16yo niece living with us for almost a year. She is another straight A student in high school. Also very bright, intellectually. Very often, and I am talking 1-2 times a week, she'd relate to us over dinner that she napped in class. Why? Because the teacher (not even a substitute) would put a movie on in the class. I'd ask her if the movie was related to class in some way. Nope. Any paper or report due on it? Nope. Teacher just put a movie on for the fuck of it apparently.

Yet, a common complaint from the school boards is that they don't have enough time to cover the material, enough money to afford supplies, enough teachers to teach the students, etc etc. When in actuality, if they cut the random "Teacher Planning" days, or "Teacher In-Service" days and actually taught some shit instead of watching fucking Twilight in Social Studies class, and stopped funding in class "vending" machines so that the kids could snack in class, and just do nothing but fucking teach they might actually realize that they have time for it. It isn't a lack of resources. It is a lack of resource management and accountability.

So, yeah, hijacked....it's been hijacked by special projects and special interests and special touchy feely policies and in the end there is nothing coming out of the schools that is special from an educational standpoint. The really intelligent ones are held up and stagnate waiting for the less intelligent ones mainly because it might hurt someone's feelings. The less intelligent ones aren't pulled aside and given targeted help to get them moving in sync with the curriculum as that might, again, hurt their feelings. No one wants to hurt anybody's feelings and the fact of the matter is that once these kids get out into the world, the first person who fires them for being a dumb fuck is going to hurt their damn feelings.

Then you get to college/university. Aw geez here we go....How many of you, by show of hands (Kraker put your hand down), know people or went to college with people that had no earthly business being in college. Either they were not intelligent enough to be there. Or they were not mature enough to be there. Just there cause someone told them that college was the "only" way. That "college' was mandatory for some unknown reason. I know plenty and I went to school with a few. Did the education do them any good? Likely not. College, too, has been "hijacked" by those in the business of sending people to college and collecting loan revenue in perpetuity. What is wrong with directing someone who is less "apt" (whether that is based on grades and aptitude tests or simply on expressed desire) into a vocational education that will actually benefit them and whatever community they reside in? Why does a vocational education get such a bad rep in the states. If I am not mistaken, Germany has a multifaceted approach to higher education and one of those facets is comprised of the university type system and another is vocational or geared towards a trade. I am sure that there are some people on this forum with no college education, but who have a vocational education and therefore mastery of a trade who make a better living than a lot of the college graduates out there.

I know that this is a rambling rant....but you asked an honest question and I wanted to at least give some response to it. I'd pull stats if I needed to, but since I am living the disappointment nightly in our educational system with 4 kids in the system now, I don't feel like I have to.

You talk to much.

Who's Much?