Thread: Is this really what our country has come to??

Originally Posted by Alundil

And the "fix" proposed and implement was a government run health system (partially at this point - though the intention was much broader). Seems a pretty equal analogy - if that's the mindset.

That's the analogy that I was trying to draw, yeah. I'm not sure that I understand where we're disagreeing.

YES I am opening up a thread that is over 2 years old.

First let me say I am sorry that the guys house burned down and he lost some animals because he didn't pay a yearly fee to the volunteer fire dept from a town that He doesn't live in

Let's talk about the Fire and EMS departments.

I volunteered for a small county Fire/EMS department that cover approximately 50 square miles for 10 years. I now work as a full time fireman and work part time at another department to make ends meet.

As a Volunteer I didn't receive any pay.
As a Volunteer I didn't get any time off from my real job if I was up all night fighting a house fire or driving someone to the hospital at 3am because they had a headache....Yes a headache!!! what a waste of a service.
As a Volunteer I put in anywhere from 30 to 60 hours a week for 10 years. That is more than some of you put in at your full time jobs that you get paid for.
I regularly put my life on the line fighting a house fires at least once every 2 weeks during my 10 years as a volunteer.

We had 2 stations and our yearly budget was around 380,000. This covered 5 Duty crew personnel Monday thru Friday 6am to 6pm, off duty professional firefighters, who covered the station(singular) during the day while all of the volunteers were working at their real jobs earning their pay check.

Of the total estimated 1,096,250 volunteer and paid firefighters across the country, 800,050 are volunteer.


Our newest piece of equipment was a 3 year old ambulance that was a piece of shit because it was used and abused for 3 years running calls 24/. When it was purchased it cost 90,000. Not to mention the state fees we had to pay yearly to run it as a Advance Life Care unit. The cost of the supplies we had to keep on the unit so it could be classified as a ALS unit. Not to mention that EVERYTHING has expiration dates.
Today one of the departments I work for is buying a new ambulance the total cost is 170,000. granted it will be fully stocked when it arrives but this isn't cheap.

The newest fire truck we had was an 83 FMC. it was bought as a Demo unit so we got it at a cheap price, just over 100,000 in 83. This truck had 4 Air packs on it which cost 2000.00 each in 83. The next newest engine we had was a 76 Mack. It would pumps it ass off and was even at the Woodway square fire in 79 if any of you are old enough to remember that fire in the Houston area. The next engine was a 76 Ford....enough said.
The annual cost to maintain these units was about 12-15K per unit and if something major happened to it it could go up to 30k a year. Our cost for electricity, water and garbage collection was 2500.00 per month on average for both stations.
The last fire truck that my full time job purchased cost in excess of 750,000. Our ladder truck cost 1.3 million

Fuel cost to run the vehicles was anywhere from 1000.00 per month to 2000.00. I have no idea of fuel cost today since prices have risen.

Bottom line it is expensive to maintain fire and ems equipment not to mention to purchase them especially today.


MOST volunteer fire/ems departments Don't get taxes from the government, most of them are ran as a private agencies or as a 501(C)3 tax exempt company. The ones that do get money from taxes are either a Rural Fire District (RFD) or Emergency Service District (ESD). Both of these have to be voted in by the residents that the proposed ESD or RFD will cover. Just like every other tax most people will vote NO. Meaning they don't want the added tax. If it is voted in then yes that department now has an Obligation to respond to and attempt to extinguish any and all fires in their jurisdiction and will have a regular income to purchase the apparatus and training they need to perform.

When I started in 89 our department relied on donation via water bills. This donation was 4.00 per month per each connection, so if the mall had one water connection they paid 4.00 a month and the family who had a 1000 square foot house with a single connection, they paid 4.00 a month. Over the years the amount of money we were receiving from the 21 different MUD's who collected the money for us became less and less. It went from a 80-85% collection rate to a 40% collection rate. It was a donation so they did not have to pay so they didn't.
But we still responded and put out any fire, went to every car accident, and responded to and treated every medical call we were called to.

Lets talk about gear,

Today the average cost of bunker gear is through the roof.

A pair of pants, a Jacket, a pair of Boots, a Hood and a pair of gloves are 3500.00 which if it last can be used for up to 10 years then it has to be replaced regardless of its condition. Most sets of gear with normal use will last 2 years.
SCBA(Air Packs) 4000.00 for the back pack and a bottle.
Thermal imagining Cameras start at 15000. and go up. These are not required but if I am to do my job to the best of my ability then having one of these will help. IT will also make it so I can find you faster in a totally blacked out environment where I cant see my hand pressed up against my face mask.

Training the average cost of fire training is 2500.00. This will get you a certification so you can apply for a full time job as a fireman. This doesn't include the bunker gear, you have to supply that. Books aren't that bad, less than 100.00 in most cases. For volunteers usually you pay for this on your own or sometimes if the department has extra money they will pay for some of your training.
When was the last time any of you spent that kind of money for training for something you do for free?

fire_department_facts


There are grants available for departments to apply for but not all departments are eligible for all grants. These grants some large some small are great BUT they are for specific use. Meaning you have to use that money for what you requested it for. IE, Upgrade your communication system. Buy X amount of new gear for X amount of personnel or New air packs or a Thermal imaging camera. If you don't provide proof of how you used it you will be required to give it back and will not b eligible for any other grants.

Land taxes DO NOT go to any volunteer fire departments.
If you live in a city the amount of money the fire department gets will be decided by the mayor or City Manager depending on your city's type of government usually it is earmarked as city services which includes Police, Streets and Drainage, Parks and Rec. These monies do come from the taxes you pay on your house and land in the city.


Let's talk about this guy and his choice of not paying a 75.00 fee.

While I do not support subscriptions for fire departments and feel it is my duty to respond to any call

I do think that the owner of the house should have been responsible enough for his own property and pay this Tax/Subscription when he received the bill. This wasn't anything new!!! it has been that way for how many years?

Cranick, 68, told Keith Olbermann on MSNBC on Tuesday evening, "I'm no freeloader, I've worked all my life for everything I've got. It happens to anybody, I don't care, you forget things and I did. I suffered the consequences for it."

Better yet!!!! why did he allow his grandson to "play" with fire and burn trash.
While it is tragic that he lost his house, his animals he had the choice of paying ahead of time.

My wife will not get an option of paying my life insurance premium after I die.

After all the fire department is Just that, An insurance policy.

Across the county, no cities' tax dollars fund rural fire protection, he said. That's common in many U.S. rural areas, Reavis said, although the notion is not necessarily widely known among people living in urban areas.

A plan for a tax that would cover rural fire protection was rejected, he said, as county officials kept pushing municipalities to opt for subscription plans.


Reavis said he operates his all-volunteer, unpaid fire department on $8,000 a year.

OK from reading the 8 pages I see there are a few Volunteer fireman here but for the rest of you lets talk about Trailer House fires

They burn faster than any other house fire, they are considered a single content fire. The average house is considered multiple content because it has fire stops built in. A trailer house does not.

The average fire will double every minute this is why We always tell people to call 911 first, DON'T try and put out the fire.

The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) sets the standards for response time for volunteer fire departments. The response time clock starts when the 911 center makes its first dispatch and stops when the first piece of firefighting apparatus arrives on the scene. For those whose houses are on fire, the response time may seem like an eternity.

In a suburban area, the first piece of apparatus should arrive on the scene within 10 minutes. In rural areas, the NFPA says the standard is 14 minutes.

I do not know the response times for this one incident but I would guess it was nearing the 15 minute mark and since it was out of there city it could be longer. With this being said by the time the fire department arrived on scene the mobile home was probably completely involved so the likelihood that the structure was not tenable. What this means is they would not of been able to save anyone or any belongings.


I am pissed at some of the responses posted here about the volunteers, they do it for free and you all are bashing them like they are employees and that it is their responsibility to do it no matter what the consequences are to their live.

As a fireman if I feel it is unsafe for me to attempt to rescue someone, I don't have to go in.

How many of you are willing to run into a burning building !!!!!


I have in my 24 years of being a fireman been in some hairy shit that I should not of been in but I survived.

The fire department is only an Insurance policy! We are here for that Just in case situation.

We have to have the equipment, the training just in case of an emergency. If we did not get any money up front we would not be able to buy them.


/rant off

Thats not exactly how it happened though. He said he forgot to pay it and that they were there in time to put it out. He even offered to pay whatever it takes. Instead they refused and watched it burn. Sorry but its disgracefull for a fire compnay to come out and just watch it burn because they didnt get a check. They may have been technically right but we all know what should have happened. Its not like they couldn't have recovered the cost.

Emergency services should never be treated as a business. Thats percisely how things get fucked up to begin with.