A win for those of us with systems.

**deathgodusmc** · 05-18-11, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Morningfrost

Having them drive may temporarily reduce things like speeding, but the second that cop turns a corner or something the speeding starts again. It's what I myself do, and I know others do as well. Also, having them hide reduces the amount of speeding period, because you never know where the cop is hiding, or if a cop is hiding. If they're out and visible, you can do whatever you want when you can't see them....drive 100mpg in a 55 zone, blow through stop signs, etc. In the current system, you'd hesitate before doing those because that big sign up ahead could have a cruiser behind it, or a cop could be in that parking lot next to the stop sign keepin an eye on the sign. And I do believe the bit about how far someone would be prior to getting caught. It obviously depends on the area you live in, but I live in a fairly large city with a LOT of traffic. U-turns are a pain in the butt to pull off at most times of the day, unless you get extremely lucky.

And my main point with bringing up the flaw in the numbers is just that the numbers you gave are misleading. Not all violent crimes end in death, but you quoted those numbers compared to the number of people KILLED in traffic accidents. There's always going to be more people injured then killed, that's why I also suggested you could use traffic fatalities vs. homicides instead, as both of those involve the death of the victim and would therefore be more relevant. Perhaps those numbers would still indicate that traffic fatalities are less frequent then homicides, but the numbers will be quite a bit closer then just looking at all violent crimes....because violent crimes don't always end with a person's death.

The rarity with which police are able to stop a crime in progress has a bit to do with how their deployed, but the fact that they're able to stop crimes in progress at ALL is heartening. Do you know the odds of being able to just drive down a street and find a crime happening? It's similar to the odds of waking up one day and finding out a magical genie is giving you a blowjob and telling you that you still have 2 wishes left lol.

No matter how you work the situation cops are a temporary fix to traffic violations. As someone that does as you suggest and speeds without seeing a cop hidden i can tell you from my 25 years of driving tickets do not curb speeding. Yes speeding isn't a good thing but tickets do nothing but generate revenue. All of your examples happen in excess of millions of times a day. With millions of vehicles on the road daily and speeding tickets being handed out for well over 50 years i think its painfully obvious they dont deter people. If you doubt that think about the fact there are 246 million cars in the US with 196 million drivers.

The problem with your arguement is i started this as police should be looking for crime not murders specifically. Of which just those numbers are closer but you have 2 fields in play by police departments traffic control and crime. Currently we have more focus on traffic then crime and that should not be the practice. Sure every cop is looking for crime while on duty and i did not suggest other wise but sitting in one spot severely limits the actual deterant to crime. So they know not to rob the doughnut shop the officer is sitting by (just for you kraker) but they also know residential is damn near a free target.

It has more then a bit to do with how they are deployed. If your looking for a job your not going to find it sitting in one place waiting for it to come to you. This is not rocket science. As any person that works retail can tell you along with every retail company has already figured out the first step in stopping crime is visibility. The idea is to make your presence known. A patroling officer would accomplish that. Sure there will always be gaps but you can only do so much and i think everyone realises that.

I dont think you understand the true dollar value being brought in by traffic citations. We are talking a multi billion dollar industry. Now i wonder why they would continue to push the limits on what methods can be used to issue tickets. You really think traffic cams were put in for safety reasons? Hell no they weren't they serve one purpose to generate revenue. More and more states are starting to ban these items for various reasons as they should. Read a few of these and you can get an idea of why we have so many cops dedicated to one purpose. To add to that and i know not all work this way but there are areas where a quota is in place. Instead of getting into an arguement over the exsistance of ticket quotas i'll just give some articles to read as well.

Financial gain for traffic tickets.
Speeding Ticket Statistics
Traffic Tickets Are Big Business
How Much is That Speeding Ticket Really Worth? |

Proof of quotas.
Ticket Quota Cover-up Continues with Pennsylvania State Police
Washington State Police Use Ticket Quotas
If You Didn’t Believe Ticket Quotas Existed Before, You Will Now
Ticket Quota : Speed Camera Detectors, Traffic Fines, DUI Laws
LAPD loses lawsuit over parking ticket quotas, insists they were just
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/10/ny.../10quotas.html
Do Traffic Ticket Quotas Really Exist?
Move to ban ticket quotas hasn't gotten very far - Chicago Tribune
Are DPD Ticket Quotas Legal?
NYC cops reportedly confirm ticket quotas - US news - msnbc.com
So if it isn't about revenue then why do quotas and implications of quotas get used? Let me know if you need more proof.

**BigHub** · 05-18-11, 01:07 PM

Some departments have quotas... but the majority of them don't.

**Morningfrost** · 05-18-11, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

No matter how you work the situation cops are a temporary fix to traffic violations. As someone that does as you suggest and speeds without seeing a cop hidden i can tell you from my 25 years of driving tickets do not curb speeding. Yes speeding isn't a good thing but tickets do nothing but generate revenue. All of your examples happen in excess of millions of times a day. With millions of vehicles on the road daily and speeding tickets being handed out for well over 50 years i think its painfully obvious they dont deter people. If you doubt that think about the fact there are 246 million cars in the US with 196 million drivers.

The problem with your arguement is i started this as police should be looking for crime not murders specifically. Of which just those numbers are closer but you have 2 fields in play by police departments traffic control and crime. Currently we have more focus on traffic then crime and that should not be the practice. Sure every cop is looking for crime while on duty and i did not suggest other wise but sitting in one spot severely limits the actual deterant to crime. So they know not to rob the doughnut shop the officer is sitting by (just for you kraker) but they also know residential is damn near a free target.

It has more then a bit to do with how they are deployed. If your looking for a job your not going to find it sitting in one place waiting for it to come to you. This is not rocket science. As any person that works retail can tell you along with every retail company has already figured out the first step in stopping crime is visibility. The idea is to make your presence known. A patroling officer would accomplish that. Sure there will always be gaps but you can only do so much and i think everyone realises that.

I dont think you understand the true dollar value being brought in by traffic citations. We are talking a multi billion dollar industry. Now i wonder why they would continue to push the limits on what methods can be used to issue tickets. You really think traffic cams were put in for safety reasons? Hell no they weren't they serve one purpose to generate revenue. More and more states are starting to ban these items for various reasons as they should. Read a few of these and you can get an idea of why we have so many cops dedicated to one purpose. To add to that and i know not all work this way but there are areas where a quota is in place. Instead of getting into an arguement over the exsistance of ticket quotas i'll just give some articles to read as well.

Financial gain for traffic tickets.
Speeding Ticket Statistics
Traffic Tickets Are Big Business
How Much is That Speeding Ticket Really Worth? |

Proof of quotas.
Ticket Quota Cover-up Continues with Pennsylvania State Police
Washington State Police Use Ticket Quotas
If You Didn’t Believe Ticket Quotas Existed Before, You Will Now
Ticket Quota : Speed Camera Detectors, Traffic Fines, DUI Laws
LAPD loses lawsuit over parking ticket quotas, insists they were just
In Secret Tape, New York Police Press Ticket Quotas - NYTimes.com
Do Traffic Ticket Quotas Really Exist?
Move to ban ticket quotas hasn't gotten very far - Chicago Tribune
Are DPD Ticket Quotas Legal?
NYC cops reportedly confirm ticket quotas - US news - msnbc.com
So if it isn't about revenue then why do quotas and implications of quotas get used? Let me know if you need more proof.

<sigh> The only part about this I actually feel like answering right now is the debate over the numbers. I know why the discussion started and that the police should be searching for crimes, not murders. All I'm disputing is that the numbers you posted were not in the right relationship levels, as posting the numbers for violent crimes hyperinflates the number because it includes things that only injure, while quoting the number of traffic fatalities does NOT. All I'm asking is that when you make an arguement and begin to quote numbers, that you do so in a way that is fair and impartial, rather then skewed just to sway people one way or the other. The purpose of these numbers is to allow people to decide for themselves.

Please feel free to miss the point of my arguement for the 3rd time. It's ok, I've gotten used to it.

**deathgodusmc** · 05-18-11, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Morningfrost

<sigh> The only part about this I actually feel like answering right now is the debate over the numbers. I know why the discussion started and that the police should be searching for crimes, not murders. All I'm disputing is that the numbers you posted were not in the right relationship levels, as posting the numbers for violent crimes hyperinflates the number because it includes things that only injure, while quoting the number of traffic fatalities does NOT. All I'm asking is that when you make an arguement and begin to quote numbers, that you do so in a way that is fair and impartial, rather then skewed just to sway people one way or the other. The purpose of these numbers is to allow people to decide for themselves.

Please feel free to miss the point of my arguement for the 3rd time. It's ok, I've gotten used to it.

Im not missing your point. I even addressed it specifically when i said "Of which just those numbers are closer". There is a differebce between the items being discussed. One is an accident meaning unintentional harm and the other is deliberate acts of violence. Feel free to state your point. I know it cant be there is some viable compairson between injury accidents and violent crimes.

**Kraker Jak** · 05-18-11, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Im not missing your point. I even addressed it specifically when i said "Of which just those numbers are closer". There is a differebce between the items being discussed. One is an accident meaning unintentional harm and the other is deliberate acts of violence. Feel free to state your point. I know it cant be there is some viable compairson between injury accidents and violent crimes.

Hey, tell the millions of people in jail for driving while suspended or HTV because of too many tickets/accidents hat tickets are just monetary. You get points, and if u continue to break the law, there are consequences

Sent from my phone, because obviously I am not at home...using TapaTalk

**deathgodusmc** · 05-18-11, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Kraker Jak

Hey, tell the millions of people in jail for driving while suspended or HTV because of too many tickets/accidents hat tickets are just monetary. You get points, and if u continue to break the law, there are consequences

Sent from my phone, because obviously I am not at home...using TapaTalk

Thanks for the update.

**Kraker Jak** · 05-18-11, 08:34 PM

np

**deathgodusmc** · 05-19-11, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by Kraker Jak

Hey, tell the millions of people in jail for driving while suspended or HTV because of too many tickets/accidents hat tickets are just monetary. You get points, and if u continue to break the law, there are consequences

Sent from my phone, because obviously I am not at home...using TapaTalk

I was going to just let this die but the more i think about it the more i think you've been brain washed by the system. There are 2 million people in jail in this country. A very very small fraction of that has anything to do with traffic violations. You cany justify a system on one factor which is exactly what you are doing. Sure people drink and drive and srue people get their lisence suspended for having to many ticket. However all of those can be subsided by paying a fine excluding those very rare occasions were they have proven themselves to be habitual offenders.

So tell me how its not about money when a 3 time drunk driver can still pay a fine, pay for classes, pay for probation officer meeting, and pay the reinstatement fee and still get their lisence back? The consequenses are its expensive to keep repeating bad decisions.