Thread: I thought the tax cuts were bad?

The world isn't as simple as "tax cuts are bad" for most people.

Same shit new day with politicians.

Originally Posted by AetheLove

I won't try to deflect you from catching Wicked knee-deep in hypocrisy (or he you); but I think the statement you quoted stands pretty well on its own. It also highlights something that spikes my peeve meter pretty frequently: discussions that treat taxes as "good" or "bad", or that we need "more" or "less" of them.

We don't need more taxes. We don't need fewer taxes. We need appropriate taxes. That's hard to do.

"Regulation" seems to work in the same way. We don't need more regulations. We don't need fewer. Regulations aren't like sugar, where if the regulation cake isn't sweet enough we can add another quarter-cup. We need appropriate regulation. They impinge our freedom, they are costly to administer and enforce, and sometimes (at the margin, and in the short run) they hurt our international competitiveness.

But so what? There are many instances of countries that don't have effective regulatory oversight. I've traveled in a few. The human damage and environmental damage is appalling. Chinese mining industry may be kicking ass on the world markets right now, but they are poisoning China. They aren't paying the cost up-front, but make no mistake: someone in China will pay it eventually.

Laws are another example. We don't need more laws. We don't need fewer laws. We don't need more law-abiding citizens. If we're going to be a nation of laws we need to have GOOD laws.

All of that seems obvious to me. I imagine it's obvious to most people here. But everywhere from the media to my friends I keep hearing discussions that seem to completely forget that part.

"Oh, sure, just what we need - MORE regulations!"

Well, yeah. If they're good ones, why not? If they're shitty, then of course we don't want them. If they're poorly described, then enforcement will be an expensive nightmare - so let's not do that.

I happen to be doing some electrical work today (not my usual job). It has to be up to code, and eventually there will be an inspection. That's a huge pain in the ass, and taxes pay for the inspector, but I'm fine with it. I've been places where there is no code. I've been places where there is a reasonable code, but no enforcement. Those places universally suck.

I apologize for the thread-drift, but I was taking a break and I thought I'd get that off my chest.

Cheers,


AetheLove

We dont need more or less we need an appropriate amount. Sorry love but lol. Just what is the "appropriate" amount of taxes needed? How can we have an appropriate amount without increasing or decreasing it as nessecary?

Oh and by the way the taxes dont pay for the inspector to come out. You do when you put in for the inspection. Every inspection has an associated fee for it to be completed. What makes that even worse is you can have work to code with the code book in your hand open to the page and he can still fail you because you didn't reach what he thinks the code should be.

We most certainly do need less regulation and less taxes. Taxes and regulations are the reason we dont produce anything in this country. There is no such thing as made in america anymore. Made in america actually means assembled in american now.

Originally Posted by CivilWars

So wait, for however many years you have been here any time taxes are mentioned you say let the Bush tax cuts expire, but now you are agreeing with President Neo that we should extend them? I am confused. I thought this wasn't about my guy/your guy?


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I do think that the Bush tax cuts should be repealed, and I've been pretty clear on why - I think that the Capital gains tax is too low, and amounts to a loophole for the wealthy. I also think that the income rates for the upper tax brackets were set too low. I've never said anything about all taxes, or this tax specifically. For the record I also haven't said that I supported this tax cut.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

We dont need more or less we need an appropriate amount. Sorry love but lol. Just what is the "appropriate" amount of taxes needed? How can we have an appropriate amount without increasing or decreasing it as nessecary?

My point was that talking about this in terms of an appropriate amount is simplistic. I didn't say "appropriate amount of taxes", I said "appropriate taxes."

Any one tax, like a consumer gasoline tax, can be raised or lowered. "Taxes" can't; at least not that simply. You can look at the effect of the over-all tax burden, but there isn't some tax faucet that you can open and close in tiny increments.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Oh and by the way the taxes dont pay for the inspector to come out. You do when you put in for the inspection. Every inspection has an associated fee for it to be completed. What makes that even worse is you can have work to code with the code book in your hand open to the page and he can still fail you because you didn't reach what he thinks the code should be.

Well, yeah. I shouldn't have simplified it. There is a code which is maintained and changed, and there is a state requirement to follow a code, and there is a government structure that administers the process of permits and inspections. Some of that is paid for from the general tax fund. Some of it is paid for as fees - but in this case it's a government regulation which requires a fee, and in a lot of ways that's the same as a tax.

I think that taxes which target users can be a good thing. For example, I like that the county maintains parks, and that some of the expense is paid for by people who go to the parks and pay an entrance or parking fee. All residents pay some, users pay more, frequent users pay most.

... and I know about getting screwed by an inspector interpreting things differently than you. A code requirement makes it harder for the DIYer. One effect of that is to encourage professionalism - the pros have done it, they know not just the code but also SOP in the locale and maybe even know the inspectors. Personally, I've had good experience with inspectors. I know some people in some places have shitty experiences. Another downside is that the code and inspection bureaucracy sometimes don't respond quickly to changes in technology or safety. There are places where you can't use the latest energy-efficient materials and construction techniques in a home because "code" hasn't caught up yet.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

We most certainly do need less regulation and less taxes. Taxes and regulations are the reason we dont produce anything in this country. There is no such thing as made in america anymore. Made in america actually means assembled in american now.

I think we need "less regulation" only in the sense that we need to get rid of bad or inefficient regulations. We could be doing a much better job than we are. A lot of people are pissed off at dysfunctional legislatures, and I'm one of them.

The circumstances that gave rise to the need for regulations (safety, pollution, etc) haven't gone away.

Cheers,


AetheLove