2013 NFL Scouting combine

**Red_Lizard2** · 02-23-13, 02:52 PM

Any other nerds/weirdos/whatever you call people who watch the combine (that don't work for the NFL) watching the combine or at least the stats? Some pretty insane 40s today by the O-Lineman, Terron Armstead and Lane Johnson both ran 4.7 (4.71 and 4.72 to be exact). Had a few just under 5.00 as well.

I thought Lane Johnson's numbers particularly looked damn good, didn't see how he did in field drills though, 4.72 40, 1.61 10-Yard split, 28 Bench, 34' Vert, 118' Broad Jump, and 4.52 20-Yard shuttle. Or to put it another way, good explosiveness, good lower-body strength, average to above average (compared to the rest of the group) upper body strength and good agility. Granted that is purely number based, but I love numbers damnit!

Armstead had the fastest 40 (Was unofficially 4.65 iirc), highest jump in the Vert (34.5'), 31 bench, top 5 broad jump (112'), the 20 yard shuttle wasn't near the top, but overall put up some nice numbers, hadn't heard anything about him before today. his split was in the 1.6s as well.

Joeckel's numbers all seemed pretty average overall, but I don't think he is considered to ever be a guy who would put up huge numbers in the drills, so doesn't matter.

The other standout on the TE side had to be Vance McDonald, top 5 40 (at 4.69), top bench (31), had around the 6th best vert (33.5'), 2nd in the broad jump (119'), One of the worst (of the group) 20 yard shuffle, 60 yard was 3rd best though, although average of the pack it seemed.

Ertz's numbers all seemed pretty meh, while Eifert's looked pretty good.

Can't think of what else to say, tomorrow is all the guys people really care about (WR, QB, and RB I believe). Have to find a breakdown of the position drills to see what people think of those for today, and curious if there is somewhere that has the "ideal" numbers for the different positions (just to have that benchmark to say "x number is really good for y position, instead of just looking at the group).

**Morningfrost** · 02-23-13, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

Can't think of what else to say, tomorrow is all the guys people really care about (WR, QB, and RB I believe). Have to find a breakdown of the position drills to see what people think of those for today, and curious if there is somewhere that has the "ideal" numbers for the different positions (just to have that benchmark to say "x number is really good for y position, instead of just looking at the group).

Speak for yourself lol. I like watching the offensive line drills. Saw a couple guys there who are very intriguing who weren't "big names." Armstead may have worked himself into the 2nd round with that show of athleticism. It's something he very much needed to do, coming from such a small school, since he doesn't have the same quality tape to show GMs that say Joeckel or Eric Fisher do. Right now the OT race is looking to be Joeckel over Fisher by a small margin (Fisher looks to be the better run blocker, while Joeckel is a better pass blocker), with Lane Johnson bringing up the rear of the top tackles this year. After them there's a real logjam at OT, but some lesser known names that I'll be keeping an eye on are Kyle Long and Vince Painter. Both looked pretty fluid in their drills and showcased some good athleticism. They're probably better suited as RTs at the next level, but may have the ability to play LT with a bit of development.

As for the rest of the linemen....I honestly wasn't impressed with ANY of the guards in the drills (though Warmack was supposedly participating while injured, so that may explain him). At center though, I was very impressed with Brian Schwenke. The dude is big, with a mauler-style body, and he looked very fluid and athletic in the drills. Got low and used leverage in the bag drills, which is always a plus.

Several guys may have really hurt their stock. I saw a LOT of poor footwork, and even some absolutely terrible footwork, during the drills. OT Stephane Milhim was the one who stood out the most to me. During the shuffle drill where they're showcasing the footwork they'd used while guiding a DE around the outside of the pocket....it looked like his leading foot was just flopping out haphazardly, and that happened when they ran the drill in either direction so it's not that he played one side and isn't used to the footwork for the other, it was equally bad. Fluid footwork isn't as important on the inside, but for an OT poor footwork can get you destroyed by NFL defensive linemen.

When it comes to the offensive linemen, I don't pay a whole lot attention to their raw numbers (number of bench reps, 40 times, vertical, etc.), because there's a huge number of variables. What I do watch when it comes to raw numbers is height, weight, and wingspan. There are reasons that those are the numbers I watch as opposed to others. Height and weight play into leverage, which is the most important part of an OL's game. OGs especially need to be able to get low and use proper leverage, which is harder for taller guys, which is why typically you'll see somewhat shorter players at OG and C, or rather they're shorter than the average OT. Wingspan is all important for OTs, because it helps them fend off pass rushers. Bench reps don't mean a whole lot at the Combine, since a guy with a larger wingspan is going to have more difficulty getting a higher number of reps, since he has to lift the weight further. That's why you'll typically see OGs put up the most reps, because they've typically got shorter arms, not necessarily because they're actually stronger.

I haven't seen a lot of the TE drills yet (I got cajoled into doing yardwork and haven't gotten to that point in my DVR yet), but from the measurables I saw it looks like Eifert made it clear he's the best TE in the draft, while Ertz flopped a little bit to clearly drop behind into the #2 spot. A day 3 sleeper I saw though is Jake Stoneburner. He showed some nice, fluid speed. Hoping to see good work on the catch and blocking drills, but right now Stoneburner is a name I'll be watching (for more reasons than just because the name is awesome).

~Morningfrost

**Red_Lizard2** · 02-24-13, 05:08 PM

Seen the Sunday workouts? (I didn't, was up late so just slept in). Looking over the recaps of the On-field stuff (for QBs) it sounds as though everyone was so-so. Bray had a strong arm but accuracy was meh, Glennon was worse (still strong arm, accuracy worse), I've heard Geno was either great, good, or just okay.

Looking at the measurables, Knile Davis had a 4.37 40 and a 31 bench, Christine seemed really interesting (4.54 40, 43' vert, 125' broad, 4.02 20-yard shuttle). Don't know why but it is hard for me to get excited about measurables for the "marquee" positions than the lineman, tight ends and linebackers.

**Morningfrost** · 02-24-13, 05:23 PM

I watched some of them, but I don't put a lot of stock on Combine workouts for QBs especially. Even with RBs I don't put a lot of stock on them. With WRs the only drills I really give any weight to are the catching drills done after all the measurable tests are done with.

Bray I thought actually looked pretty good. He's got accuracy to go with his arm, he's just not consistent. Some of that I think might be footwork, but I wasn't really able to see his feet from the angles I saw, so I can't be sure. If Bray's able to go somewhere that he can sit for a year and work on mechanics, he's got a shot to turn into a quality guy. Nassib also looked fairly good, showing more arm strength than people expected.

And I'm like you, I don't really get excited over measurables for skill QBs, RBs and WRs....though McCalebb's 40 time was impressive.

I'm definitely looking forward to tomorrow's Combine. I can't wait to see how Ezekiel Ansah looks man. I've been riding his jockstrap for months now lol.

~Morningfrost

**CivilWars** · 02-25-13, 06:20 PM

So Manti ran a 4.82. No offense, but I bet if I had a month where my only job was to prepare for the combine I bet I could get in good enough shape to run a 4.82. Stock dropping...

**Morningfrost** · 02-25-13, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by CivilWars

So Manti ran a 4.82. No offense, but I bet if I had a month where my only job was to prepare for the combine I bet I could get in good enough shape to run a 4.82. Stock dropping...

About the only thing going Manti's way right now is that ILB's don't really need a lot of straight-line speed. I never really thought he was as talented as others did. I was always of the opinion that what was keeping his stock high was leadership and intangibles....which obviously came into question with the catfishing incident.

I was watching the DL drills a lot more than the LB drills, and I was pretty impressed with a couple guys. Ziggy Ansah put up a damned good time for someone his size, and it was surprising to see how well some of the NT prospects moved. Normally you don't expect NT prospects to be very agile, but there were several who I thought were impressive.

~Morningfrost

**Red_Lizard2** · 02-25-13, 08:02 PM

Anyone see Brandon Williams doing one of the linebacker drills? By no means good at grading, but I thought he looked pretty good for a 335 pound dude. Means absolutely nothing since like hell he'd ever be more then a DT but still impressive.

Cornelius Washington put up some nice measurables but only caught a tiny bit of his on-field workout (have it recording to watch hopefully tonight, among other players). 6'4", 264 with a 4.55 40, 1.60 split, 36 bench, 39 vert, 128 broad.

Also I thought Te'o looked really slow trying in the first 5 to 10 yards, though his 10 yard split wasn't terrible (so maybe it was just me?)

**BigHub** · 02-25-13, 08:15 PM

The one 40 time that took me by surprise was Ryan Swope.. white boy ran a 4.34 and got 2nd, or tied for second I believe...crazy.

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**ab1tar** · 02-25-13, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by BigHub

The one 40 time that took me by surprise was Ryan Swope.. white boy ran a 4.34 and got 2nd, or tied for second I believe...crazy.

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You see C-Mike's vert? That was crazy, but I have watched him do a back handspring into a back flip in full pads...