JJ since 1983

**fourward** · 03-18-09, 11:47 AM

what if the smoker snatched, turned around, and shoved the survivor off the ledge? now that is something I'm more worried about then taking cover (places where you can do it: NM4, NM5, BH1)

but limiting the smoker's movement to 5-8 slow steps back and to the sides (but not forward) would be good, though. and if people complain thats not enough steps, then it's their fault for dragging them in a wide open spaces, not even trying to go under cover.

**Wizav** · 03-18-09, 12:07 PM

Well my original idea involved a single Step either left/Right or Behind thats all the smoker needs.

**monolith1183** · 03-18-09, 12:35 PM

not a good idea really, since some areas cant be reached by survivors meaning u could grab a survivor then take a few steps back on a rooftop esentialy never taking damage. Sure they can still rescue the survivor but your going to be the smoker for far to long. Also would require more coding for little gain.

**sloppinjoe** · 03-18-09, 12:38 PM

I could see this working if someone worked out a mod that involved a simple cover system for the smoker, and only the smoker. If like he could put his back to a wall only when near a corner, using...lets say the reload button/key and poke his head out with the secondary attack command. But doing that would require skill in modding and such.

**zII M V P IIz** · 03-18-09, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Wizav

I already covered that on the first page. If a smoker falls off a ledge the tongue would release.

Or more realisticly break and tear. Afterall its an organic tissue it wont be able to handle the tension of a smoker jumping off a ledge and snagging on it. It would tear pretty much instantly.

Ye that is what I was thinking. If you fall while grabbing someone then the tongue would pretty much snap anyway from the sudden fall. Simple.

**Bianary** · 03-18-09, 01:38 PM

I saw three things go by in the thread to comment on (This is all my opinion):

On moving, I don't think the smoker should just be able to move freely. But what about once the survivor is parked (ie, would start taking damage in co-op and used to be the only time they'd take damage in versus) then the smoker can move a little bit. Thus you'd either be actively dragging the survivor in, or dangling it in place - and if you were dangling it in place, you could take a few steps out of sight. Obviously if you got the survivor hauled clear over to you, you couldn't take those steps.

Second, I very much think the smoker smoke cloud should deal damage. Make it have a bit of a delay - the first few seconds of smoke when the survivors just begin coughing does no damage. Then it starts to tick the damage at a rate that will just incap the survivors if they don't move out from it (So, 100 damage.) That will be friendly enough to get out of in normal situations, while still breaking apart hiding in the corner (Not really worth it if you're going to take a full life bar of damage for it, even if you medkit or pills halfway through to survive).

Finally, I don't believe they did quite as much testing as they might have, it felt a bit like a rushed release. I also don't get the feeling they had any real idea of how to competitively test the game (Or didn't have the time available to) before it was released. All kinds of little things, like poor tank spawn points in versus (Particularily during finales), not fixing rushing in versus (Low CI counts for the team doing it due to how intensity works - I'm convinced this is a large part of why the Infected team has trouble stopping the survivors, not the SI being too weak in it), not resetting the director between runs in versus (First team doing well = less medkits for second, getting chewed up = more.) and things like that. Not to mention a bunch of little bugs that were found immediately on release and only patched after.

**BedWhiner** · 03-18-09, 01:45 PM

100% support on the moving idea.

I wonder why did they have to nerf smoker... They took away it's only high damage attack, pulling survivors off the ledge. (it does so little damage now..)

**Bianary** · 03-18-09, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by BedWhiner

100% support on the moving idea.

I wonder why did they have to nerf smoker... They took away it's only high damage attack, pulling survivors off the ledge. (it does so little damage now..)

Have you played much with it lately? That thing is vicious with where it can land pulls at (The latest patch giving it a wider angle and ability to pull through commons really helped).

And contrary to popular belief, the smoker's primary goal is to not directly rip away a survivor's health. Yanking them out of support range of the others (Or hanging off an edge) and opening the opposing team to attack from the other SI is what Smoker's have always been built for - you can tell because that's how the bug fixes keep going, and smoker damage levels are appropriate for that as well.

**Jack Burton** · 03-18-09, 04:11 PM

Although I find the idea of the Smoker being able to move while he has someone constricted interesting, I feel it would just complicate things too mcuh and shift the game dynamics, making the smoker less of a distraction and initial attacker and more of a guerilla striker.

That said, the only problem I have with the Smoker is not being able to break my own tongue to escape certain doom. I would like to see a mechanic implemented where the Smoker can let go of his victim, regardless of whether or not theyve been incapped, to make a quick escape.

Now odds are you wouldn't want to drop someone *until* they are downed, thereby ensuring they can't retaliate immediately, and setting their savior up for another pull.

It just always seemed silly to me that the Smoker is incapable of letting go even when the other 3 survivors are bearing down on his with shotguns.
However I also understand WHY Valve chose not to do this, as it's purely a game balance issue, so I'll deal with it.

**Bianary** · 03-18-09, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Jack Burton

That said, the only problem I have with the Smoker is not being able to break my own tongue to escape certain doom. I would like to see a mechanic implemented where the Smoker can let go of his victim, regardless of whether or not theyve been incapped, to make a quick escape.

There's a server variable that can be set that allows that, a second click just drops the tongue when it's enabled.