Thread: F117 is being retired

Don't forget, Manse, we also have about a thousand operational F-16's out of over 2200 originally purchased for the USAF. So, with the F-35 as the follow-on to the F-16, the hypothetical force levels I mentioned above are aligned with current numerical levels, but much more capable.

In other news, the F/A-22 Raptor just celebrated a major milestone for that program, meeting its IOC (Initial Operational Capability) milestone. W00t! The future is here. :6 We had a big to-do with congressmen and generals and what-not at work, with one of the F-22 air show videos looping on the big screen. If you're into this stuff, keep your eyes out for air shows with the USAF demo team flying the Raptor. All I can say is... Holy crap, can that thing fly. And that's just the air combat maneuver stuff that's obvious to the casual observer.

Originally Posted by RottnJP

Don't forget, Manse, we also have about a thousand operational F-16's out of over 2200 originally purchased for the USAF. So, with the F-35 as the follow-on to the F-16, the hypothetical force levels I mentioned above are aligned with current numerical levels, but much more capable.

In other news, the F/A-22 Raptor just celebrated a major milestone for that program, meeting its IOC (Initial Operational Capability) milestone. W00t! The future is here. :6 We had a big to-do with congressmen and generals and what-not at work, with one of the F-22 air show videos looping on the big screen. If you're into this stuff, keep your eyes out for air shows with the USAF demo team flying the Raptor. All I can say is... Holy crap, can that thing fly. And that's just the air combat maneuver stuff that's obvious to the casual observer.

Theres a show coming up to Andrews Airforce Base feautering the raptor thinking about going....

Originally Posted by RottnJP

Don't forget, Manse, we also have about a thousand operational F-16'sLawn Darts out of over 2200 originally purchased for the USAF.

Fixed. :P
Yes, my distaste for the f-16 is hereditary. Dad flew Strike Eagles, so there's a bit of the pilot's rivalry passed down to me. That, and I've heard some pretty awesome red air stories of F-15's melting face.

Originally Posted by cop1991

Theres a show coming up to Andrews Airforce Base feautering the raptor thinking about going....

Go. The damned plane can fly backwards. I watched some youtube videos of the F-22 in airshows. Crazy. I showed them to the two pilots in my office, one of them watched and just said "that's just not fair."

I watched a show on History channel about the f-22 it went up against8 f-15's in a no live fire dog fight. Took out all 8 without being locked up or seen once.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_Q6Vb9xJM0


Someone pressed the I win button

As far as the actual numbers of F-22s we see in the air go, it won't be too high. Unfortunately, the way things work in this country, Congress gets to set the budget and currently Congress isn't too happy with the military. In fact some of them hate the military and have compared our soldiers to Nazis and Communist prisoner torturers. The military asks for such and such amount of money, Congress gives them much less, and then the military has to spend it all, even if they don't need it that year. If they fail to spend all that money on things that they may or may not need, Congress reduces the amount of money that they recieve the next year. Unfortunately, this means that the military never gets to save excess money for big, long term purchases (such as the F-22 Raptors) and this means that they have to ask for more cash when making such purchases. Congress generally gives them less than they need and cost over-runs in the production end of things mean that the military ends up with very few of these amazing machines. Another example of this is the RAH-66 Commanche. An amazing scout helicopter, this was killed in the end of production because Congress said that it would be better to spend less money upgrading civilian helicopters to a military version instead of using a helicopter designed for the purpose that would have dominated the field. It is also for these same reasons that we only have 20 (21 until a week ago) B2 Spirit bombers.

Originally Posted by asianator365

As far as the actual numbers of F-22s we see in the air go, it won't be too high. Unfortunately, the way things work in this country, Congress gets to set the budget and currently Congress isn't too happy with the military. In fact some of them hate the military and have compared our soldiers to Nazis and Communist prisoner torturers. The military asks for such and such amount of money, Congress gives them much less, and then the military has to spend it all, even if they don't need it that year. If they fail to spend all that money on things that they may or may not need, Congress reduces the amount of money that they recieve the next year. Unfortunately, this means that the military never gets to save excess money for big, long term purchases (such as the F-22 Raptors) and this means that they have to ask for more cash when making such purchases. Congress generally gives them less than they need and cost over-runs in the production end of things mean that the military ends up with very few of these amazing machines. Another example of this is the RAH-66 Commanche. An amazing scout helicopter, this was killed in the end of production because Congress said that it would be better to spend less money upgrading civilian helicopters to a military version instead of using a helicopter designed for the purpose that would have dominated the field. It is also for these same reasons that we only have 20 (21 until a week ago) B2 Spirit bombers.

Meh. Original plans for the Eagle were a heckuva lot less then we ended up buying. Sure, sometimes congress kills good systems, but ultimately excellence wins over time.

Comanche *could* have been a great system, but it was the Pentagon's mission & requirements creep that doomed it. You can't start out with a scout/light attack concept, size it that way, give it that kind of power, and then morph it into an Apache (non-stealthy heavy gunship) replacement. Ain't going to work, plain and simple. And that's what killed it. Also what killed the early variants of the F-111. Once the Navy and the Air Force went their separate ways, recognizing that there were significant differences in their real requirements, they were free to build two aircraft that really fit their niches well- The F-111F and the F-14. Same concept.

Originally Posted by cop1991

I watched a show on History channel about the f-22 it went up against8 f-15's in a no live fire dog fight. Took out all 8 without being locked up or seen once.

Bingo. One of the nifty airshow maneuvers is a vertical climb into a 270 backwards loop. (I forget what the pilots call the maneuver- they have to have cool names for everything- it's an Air Force law or something) The kicker is, the aircraft is driven around the loop in not much more space than the aircraft's length by the thrust vectoring nozzles. But as cool as that stuff looks, you have a plane that can choose exactly the terms of the engagement and win 8-1 without ever being sensed. A sensor suite and data links good enough that it's being used as a recon platform. LO capability superior to the F-117's quaint first-gen technology.

I've worked on a number of air systems, but nothing beats this one. Public domain info has also reported interest in the F/A-22 from the Aussies and the Japanese. If they can get over the technology transfer and local maintenance (vs. return it to the US for the special stuff) concerns, that would bring the price down for everyone.

EDITED B/C I noticed... This was post 69! :9