Thread: Wind/Solar Power

Since I am in the Midwest, the chances for hail storms are pretty high. I find it hard to see the solar advantage for sure. If a storm roles through, its not like I can just come home to flip the panels or tarp them to keep them safe.

On the other hand, wind does not always blow like in the coastal states and the very open areas of the country.

One of the cheaper directions I was looking at going was with the wind. It produces the most energy for the cost difference, but......just a simple 2.4 kW complete setup unit costs about $6000 dollars and would take years to pay for itself.

I guess at this point in time I could just look at doing a less expensive setup as a hobby and see where it takes me.

It is disappointing that there is not more advanced options available. With energy costs sky rocketing and all the technological advances we have made over the years, that someone has not come up with at the very least something that would pay for itself during its lifespan.

I am not a tree hugger by any means but I do like the idea of producing my own clean energy at a reasonable cost.

This is exactly why we should drill for oil: Currently there are no economically and technically feasible options for producing power through alternative energy means.

Originally Posted by asianator365

This is exactly why we should drill for oil: Currently there are no economically and technically feasible options for producing power through alternative energy means.

Nu-cle-ar

Repeat after me...

Nu-cle-ar

As far as ways to produce/supplement power for your own house... I have some good friends that installed geothermal heating for their entire house. It was very neat stuff. Very expensive start up costs but it pays for itself in the long run.

I love nukes. Only problem, I consider alternative energy sources to be solar/wind/hydrogen/etc.

Check out a book called "The Renewable Energy Handbook" by William Kemp. I'm working on it now. Like it so far, and came well-recomended. Like you, I'm not a tree-hugger, but I would love to get some measure of independence from the oil companies and utilities that have us by the balls right now.

Depending on your state's subsidies, solar electricity (PV) may actually pay off in about 8-10 years (of the 25 year life of the panels.) My state pays 50% of the cost, and the federal tax credit would be another $2000. A residential sized system that would be $25K comes down to $10K, which is much more reasonable. (That's for a grid-tied system. You'd also want to make sure your state has "net metering" which means you get credit for the power you suppy back to the grid. If I was building a new house, I'd include PV in a heartbeat, but my current house isn't oriented ideally for it, and my roof is old, so that would have to be re-done first.

Solar hot water systems may pay off faster- they estimate within 5 years or so if you have a hot water tank. For me the payoff for solar hot water wouldn't be as good though since we already have a tankless system for on-demand hot-water, and a well. (So we're not paying very much for our hot water as it is.)

I'm not sure I'd worry about hail on PV panels that much, in all honesty. Between living in Ohio, MA, and CT, I've never in my life seen hail big enough to break windows. Remember that PV panels are actually pretty tough- think tempered glass backed by a rigid material and built into a solid frame for support. Much thicker and tougher than a sunroof, for example, which lots of people have.

I'm also considering setting up to do biodiesel, which would pay off for me within 2 years, but would be a lot more work. (We have oil heat and a diesel vehicle.) That's really tempting, though.

The book also talks about a few things I hadn't thought of, light micro-water turbines. If you live in an area with some water that has a significant height change to it (mountain streams, etc.) those could be a real contender. Since water is much more dense than air, a water turbine is much smaller than a windmill would have to be- they fit in a utility-room sized area in your house, or an add-on outbuilding. I'd be all over that, but I don't live in an area where that's an option.

My comment on "let's drill more" is this- How fast do you think that's going to hit your wallet in a positive way? They'll charge us for the development and drilling costs immediately, but we won't see any supply increase in the next couple of years, at least. Of course, refining capacity is a critical choke-point, and no one wants to build a new refinery. Why should they? They are turning in record profits by keeping supplies tight. What a scam- talk about the fox watching the henhouse.

By the time they *have* to build new refining capacity, we'll pay for that, too.

No thanks- I want off that ride. The money we'll spend developing new fields would be much better spent on nuclear fission, fusion development, or alternative.

Well after doing some looking for incentive programs from my state.....I have found some maps refering to the wind statistics for my area. It does not look like wind is a viable option for where I live.

There are 4 levels of metering for wind....1)poor 2)marginal 3)fair 4)good

My area rates in the marginal category. So off to look at other options and delve deeper into solar options.

Thanks Rottn, I will check it out.....sounds interesting.

Originally Posted by flame

Not that I think biodiesel is a bad idea but I have heard that the resources used to create biodiesel will actually only yield 30% Also it can be dangerous, there have been several fires locally from unexperienced people trying to produce biodiesel. Just go at it cautiously. I have heard great things about hydrogen generators for your vehicle. Friend of mine made one for about $100. Locally they are installing them professionally for $1500. Most people report significant fuel mileage increase. Its out there. I think maybe high gas prices are good, they have sparked high intrest in alternative energy. Thats supply and demand for you, as long as the govt doesn't go and mess with it, things should balance out soon.

For "responsible" biofuels, you ideally want to use a waste stock, like used veggie oil. You filter it, then react it. There's not enough of that to make a huge dent on petroleum use on the national scale, but there's plenty of it for early adopters or hobbiests. If you use fresh oil, yeah, there's an impact somewhere else to contend with, like food supplies if you're using corn oil, soybeans, etc. There are folks working on higher-yield stocks, though- some goofy nuts and so forth produce a lot more oil per acre. But pure biodiesel ("B100") is a luxury in a way. Commercial biodiesel is blended with 5%-20% biodiesel only ("B5, B10, B20") which increases your mileage and cleans your engine, but costs more than 75 cents at the pump. (Cost per gallon of B100 is about 75 cents plus the oil feedstock.)

It's not too hard to do, really, but it *is* a chemical reaction requiring potentially dangerous chemicals and heat, so yeah, you can burn your house down if you're a moron. Some folks recommend doing it in the shed out back just to be on the safe side.