ALERT: Presidential debate starting now

**triggerhappy2005** · 10-16-08, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by SoySoldier

Originally Posted by Consultant

Game over...that debate went well for McCain, overall, I think - but nowhere NEAR good enough to sway 10+% of voters.

And Joe the plumber is famous now, lol.

Are you serious? All for McCain?

He was angry, divisive, and negative. Obama laid out far more facts and figures in a cool, calm and collected tone while McCain tried to attack Obama's character (and failed) instead of stay on track and discuss what really matters.

I do not know what debate you saw, but Obama appeared far more business oriented and to the point while McCain was making petty jabs at his associations and made very disingenuous attempts to appeal to peoples pathos and ethos; hey, when debating, it's logos that wins.

I think what Consultant meant was that McCain didn't land the knockout blow needed to turn the election around.

It speaks volumes about McCain and his campaign that they were relying upon a knockout blow or gotcha moment in order to win the election. Just sad.

Like I mentioned before, McCain' new campaign slogan, "Anything but the issues".

**MotoZ** · 10-16-08, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by SoySoldier

when debating, it's logos that wins.

However the election is still three weeks away. McCain didn't have to win the debate. All he had to do is give enough fodder to keep the media and YouTubers talking about him. IMO he was playing a one-liner game to set up for soundbites getting played in the remaining three weeks.

**triggerhappy2005** · 10-16-08, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by ebaconjr

Originally Posted by SoySoldier

when debating, it's logos that wins.

However the election is still three weeks away. McCain didn't have to win the debate. All he had to do is give enough fodder to keep the media and YouTubers talking about him. IMO he was playing a one-liner game to set up for soundbites getting played in the remaining three weeks.

Like Joe the plumber?

**SapiensErus** · 10-16-08, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by ebaconjr

Originally Posted by SoySoldier

when debating, it's logos that wins.

However the election is still three weeks away. McCain didn't have to win the debate. All he had to do is give enough fodder to keep the media and YouTubers talking about him. IMO he was playing a one-liner game to set up for soundbites getting played in the remaining three weeks.

Yeah... I guess logos is lost on many people out there :3

**Consultant** · 10-16-08, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by SoySoldier

Originally Posted by ebaconjr

Originally Posted by SoySoldier

when debating, it's logos that wins.

However the election is still three weeks away. McCain didn't have to win the debate. All he had to do is give enough fodder to keep the media and YouTubers talking about him. IMO he was playing a one-liner game to set up for soundbites getting played in the remaining three weeks.

Yeah... I guess logos is lost on many people out there :3

Thats totally untrue, sir.

I resent the implication that "Logos" is some mysterious uber intellectual thing that us dumb Americans don't understand.

I have a firm grasp on logos of my time...

Just see below.

**MotoZ** · 10-16-08, 11:45 AM

The supreme truth in that is ironic.

**Consultant** · 10-16-08, 11:46 AM

It's funny when 10 minutes or so of the debate was spent talking about Ayers and stuff, that's all that some people choose to recall.

If McCain was 20 years younger and a little sharper speaker (a-la Ronald Regan) he might be winning.

If McCain had vehemently opposed the bail-out like I had hoped he would, he might be winning.

We can still hope for the Bradley Effect!

What gets me, is when you go to Factcheck.org - how can these guys (BOTH of them) keep stating thigns as facts that are just not true?

It's amazing that we tolerate such misrepresentation of things.

The "100% negative ads" thing made me laugh my ass off. As did the $700M to people who dont like us)...its all comedy.

Straight up, the President doesn't effect me as much as my City and County commissioners, maybe I can win some of those elections!

**TBeard** · 10-16-08, 12:44 PM

"We can still hope for the Bradley Effect!"

We can hope that there's a measurable effect of underlying prejudice of race still in this country?

My hope is that you're kidding!

In the end, I think this will be a good lesson for the Republican party. All ideologies need a good ass-kicking now and again to re-focus on their message and values and how they relate those to the American people. It's an inherently valuable thing to be able to re-group, re-think, and re-engage your constituents. The Democrats have had to do it over the last 10 years. American politics is a cycle.

**Red_Lizard2** · 10-16-08, 01:34 PM

All i will say is if this was 2000 and i was old enough to vote then (and much more political) i would have voted for McCain of 2000. I don't like the new McCain of 2008, that instead of being that "maverick" is just a "neo-con"

**Consultant** · 10-16-08, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

All i will say is if this was 2000 and i was old enough to vote then (and much more political) i would have voted for McCain of 2000. I don't like the new McCain of 2008, that instead of being that "maverick" is just a "neo-con"

Assuming that McCain *IS* a "neocon" - have you even lived through the presidency of a republican president who was a true conservative? How about a governor or mayor? Do you even know what a neocon is without googling it?

It's comments like that one that drive us backward or at least keep us stagnant...

You don't see me calling Obama a Commie, do you? Come on!