On the Efficacy of Debate in the "Off the Servers" board.

[MotoZ]

even if I don't support those views myself haha.

haha nigga. You better be thinking ahead. Being a muse isn't safe.

[Mudstalker]

haha And why is that?

[Trvs]

I think it depends on the type of the debate. I don't care who you are or what you say, you won't be changing my faith based on some article or statistical information I read on the internet. You might be able to convince me that Obama is somewhat qualified for Presidency, but not much more than that.

[SapiensErus]

I think it depends on the type of the debate. I don't care who you are or what you say, you won't be changing my faith based on some article or statistical information I read on the internet. You might be able to convince me that Obama is somewhat qualified for Presidency, but not much more than that.

Ah yes, but see in that first post I say:

...
I will add, that I have not had this result for a religious debate however; such is faith.
...

It is difficult if not impossible to sway faith in person; let alone via the interwebz. Also, while I state cases for my position, I have never made any direct effort to sway someones faith as I have with global warming, social healthcare, spanking children and delinquincy rates, or any other number of quantifiable "provable" issues. I doubt I would ever directly try to make someone change their mind about their personal spiritual beliefs. As something intangible and very personal, there is little empirical logic to be applied and I believe there is an ethical issue with trying make someone change their faith. It would be unethical of me to make an attempt to do so, just as it would be unethical for me to tell someone how they should dress or greet people within their culture, etc.

[MotoZ]

haha And why is that?

There are several parts to being a muse. One of the most important is being able to see an issue from all sides. If a muse simply asks antagonistic questions without having an idea of what all sides will say or worse yet, honestly appreciating what they say, then the muse will come across as a dick. That brings me to the point of being a muse isn't safe.

An inevitable aspect of being a muse is that he will piss people off. ...bigdog... calls it standing in your own ashes which are easily blown off the table. Don't ask me how I know that. It is the job of the muse to figure it out and file it away for future reference.

A muse must therefore be ready to be despised or site banned at any time. If and when that happens he must thank the people for kicking his ass and teaching him a lesson. Giving less than honest thanks proves that the muse was really just a drama queen.

[Mudstalker]

Good thing I do my research on every topic I talk about then .

And I don't mean going as far as to piss people off, I hate flame wars. I'd rather state an argument that has holes in it that would be obvious to someone intelligent, which would then cause an intelligent response. And hopefully by questioning their beliefs in that way I can get them to THINK about what they believe in and maybe get them to learn something about what they believe in.

Kinda jumbled together, might not have gotten my point across, but I'm tired. So whatever.


EDIT: Oh, also. A great way to end a flame war is to put forward an argument like I've mentioned. Did it in my Colin Powell thread. But unfortunately another flame war started that caused it to be locked :3

[MotoZ]

Mud,

I used to leave holes in arguments as well. It backfired on me. Each time I ended up looking like a fool and had to explain myself. If I could sum up my lessons-learned it would go like this:

Provide answers, not problems.

Peace

[triggerhappy2005]

I have seen a number of posts, where serious debate occurrs. And eventually, several of the people will say something to the effect of: it does not matter anyway, because we will never change each other's minds.

This is not true. I have recieved PMs over my time at TTP, where people I have debated with have let me know that they took what I said and did some research, or deep thinking, and changed their course of thinking. Or that they have learned something from my badgering and are adjusting their position slightly. I will add, that I have not had this result for a religious debate however; such is faith.

Know that you can indeed affect the world around you with words.

I have to agree with this statement, as was predicted.

My thinking has been adjusted, and is adjusted on a daily basis.... because every time I wake up, it's a brand new f**king world!

I agree RV. When one posts facts to back up their views it can change my view.

[MotoZ]

Arguing is hard work. Many of us would like to think that when we speak people will be persuaded. That's simply not the case. Arguing a simple issue can be a lifetime endeavor.

It took decades for the Supreme Court to be persuaded that it was OK for them to be recorded. Their concern was that people would take sound bites out of context. What they foresaw was YouTube-type cheap persuasion.

Here is an example of what a real argument before the U.S. Supreme Court entails. It deals with many juicy issues.

http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/..._969/argument/


In real life there are no conspiracies, only fatigue of the angry.

[Mudstalker]

Mud,

I used to leave holes in arguments as well. It backfired on me. Each time I ended up looking like a fool and had to explain myself. If I could sum up my lessons-learned it would go like this:

Provide answers, not problems.

Peace

That's the thing, I don't care if I look like a fool, it's the internet after all . I know that I know what I'm talking about even if I don't let it show in some of my posts. That's enough for me. I don't need to prove myself to anyone. If I can make someone actually think and look at every side of an issue, thus killing their ignorance, then my job is done