Thread: Politics of fear

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

by the way the idea that cutting taxes and giving american's the money to spend how they want isn't a fix either. See we have this great thing called inflation, and lets say through tax cuts, every person in america gets $2,000 dollars back. All that means is prices are going to up to balance out the new found money that people now have to spend.

Basic Principle economics says that business want to sell at a high price, and consumers want to buy at low price. Eventually you get to a price in which the manufactor and consumer feel is a fair price for the product. depending on the product some are elastic demand and some are inelastic.

So lets look at Milk, at the store right now lets say its 2 dollar a gallon. People will always buy milk and its fairly inelastic in its price. Now if people have the money to buy milk at 3 dollars a gallon, why would you sell at 2 dollars?

Basically if they give us the money and say "have" prices are just going to go up and we'll be back to square one, this time with the need for more money because cost of living would have gone up, thanks to inflation.

Lizard,

What if the person selling milk at $3 is losing sales to a competitor that is still selling milk at $2? Will the three dollar man let his milk rot on the shelf?

The increasing price scenario that you describe is what would happen if wages increased, i.e. the milkman is paying his employees more money. It is not what happens when taxes decrease, i.e. the milkman's costs stay constant but the employee's take home more money. In that case sales increase at $2 until demand for milk outstrips supply.

So your position is that all business are price fixing? What are the economic enforcement agencies doing then? Having donuts with the cops?

I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm simply asking that you to work through the problem. That makes it more real.

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

by the way the idea that cutting taxes and giving american's the money to spend how they want isn't a fix either. See we have this great thing called inflation, and lets say through tax cuts, every person in america gets $2,000 dollars back. All that means is prices are going to up to balance out the new found money that people now have to spend.

Basic Principle economics says that business want to sell at a high price, and consumers want to buy at low price. Eventually you get to a price in which the manufactor and consumer feel is a fair price for the product. depending on the product some are elastic demand and some are inelastic.

So lets look at Milk, at the store right now lets say its 2 dollar a gallon. People will always buy milk and its fairly inelastic in its price. Now if people have the money to buy milk at 3 dollars a gallon, why would you sell at 2 dollars?

Basically if they give us the money and say "have" prices are just going to go up and we'll be back to square one, this time with the need for more money because cost of living would have gone up, thanks to inflation.

Then wouldn't people getting the extra $2k via jobs be the same? Either way $2k is making it's way to the guy selling milk....

Point is, consumer/citizen money is and is going to be spent...........by whom and spent on what, are the major problems I have....I would prefer I spend my own money, as opposed to Congress spending it......I would rather spend my money on things I and my family need...not on roads and infrastructure.....

Technically any tax I pay to create jobs isn't helping me at all, b/c my line of work isn't working on roads and buildings....Either way money is being spent...so why not let us keep the money in the first place so we can see direct results? Not to mention my point before also; tax cuts will benefit only those who pay taxes...so leeches of society can't leech off of a government action.

I, having a small, business understand a Little about this....... I keep my prices Low through having a low overhead thereby giving my customers a Quality product at a Fair price. I make up in Volume what I don't make on the Front End going into the project.

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

first on the leeching comment, how does that fix it in any way so they can't though? why not fix wellfare instead, can't be that hard. well except for the fact no politican will do it because they'd piss off a voter base and they don't dare to do that.

The leechers being excluded was a bi-product of tax cuts..The tax cuts themselves aren't meant to solve the welfare problem, that is an issue all it's own.

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

Second not good at conveying a point but to me cutting taxes isn't a fix. we can cut taxes when we make the room to do so. right now we spend money on all sorts of shit that doesn't work, basically wasting money. Cut the crap thats worthless then be my guess to cut taxes.

But i hate the idea of just cutting taxes because its not fixing anything with the government and gives them no reason to fix problems

What needs to be fixed with the government that needs taxpayer money? The whole reason for the so called stimulus is to stimulate the economy, not the government. Obama says it will create jobs....sure it will, for a short period of time, then what...back to square one asking for more taxpayer money...give the business tax cuts out the wazoo and give the consumers tax cuts to give them money that they earned....if they spend it irresponsibly, then guess what, tough shit on them....people who are smart and have common sense know what to buy....

AGAIN, I know how to spend my own money better than Congress does..........are tax cuts across the board the best idea? Maybe not, but it's a better option than having a stimulus bill that will do nothing to solve our long term problems.

Originally Posted by rock_lobster

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

first on the leeching comment, how does that fix it in any way so they can't though? why not fix wellfare instead, can't be that hard. well except for the fact no politican will do it because they'd piss off a voter base and they don't dare to do that.

The leechers being excluded was a bi-product of tax cuts..The tax cuts themselves aren't meant to solve the welfare problem, that is an issue all it's own.

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

Second not good at conveying a point but to me cutting taxes isn't a fix. we can cut taxes when we make the room to do so. right now we spend money on all sorts of shit that doesn't work, basically wasting money. Cut the crap thats worthless then be my guess to cut taxes.

But i hate the idea of just cutting taxes because its not fixing anything with the government and gives them no reason to fix problems

What needs to be fixed with the government that needs taxpayer money? The whole reason for the so called stimulus is to stimulate the economy, not the government. Obama says it will create jobs....sure it will, for a short period of time, then what...back to square one asking for more taxpayer money...give the business tax cuts out the wazoo and give the consumers tax cuts to give them money that they earned....if they spend it irresponsibly, then guess what, tough shit on them....people who are smart and have common sense know what to buy....

AGAIN, I know how to spend my own money better than Congress does..........are tax cuts across the board the best idea? Maybe not, but it's a better option than having a stimulus bill that will do nothing to solve our long term problems.

IMO a shortcoming with a tax-cut only solution would be that it doesn't create enough jobs on its own. Suppose that each person gets more pocket money from tax cuts. Where would they spend it? Maybe on rent or catching up on credit card bills, but that wouldn't create many jobs. If each person spent the extra money on services, such as lawn mowing, house painters, etc., then yes it would create jobs. Buying more software, electronics, etc. would probably fill excess capacity in robots but not create many jobs either.

Government spending on carefully selected projects will create jobs. Infrastructure jobs require equipment operators, project planners, architects, civil engineers, etc. On the other hand I would agree that government spending on more WinXP Pro licenses and shit like that would not create jobs either. It just cause a little more server activity at Microsoft and ______.

It sounds like congress is doing a pretty good job at weeding out the junk projects and has also included tax incentive provisions (but not income tax cuts as far as I know).

The government process is working. Its ugly to watch, but in the end I think we'll have a pretty good bipartisan package. Of course the pundits will find a few zits and put them under magnifying glasses to disgust us, but that's the media.

Last I heard the bill was expected to go up for a vote on Tuesday. If it passes then Obama will still have to sign it or veto it. He's pretty pissed that education spending got hammered in the latest version of the bill.