Thread: Revolution

Wanted to separate this so it did not go off topic of the other post it was posted inside of.

Originally Posted by Consultant

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Originally Posted by ninja|oaklandr

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Originally Posted by rock_lobster

Originally Posted by Rooster050

Good stuff, I'm all for it. More gun's in citizens hands = more power to the people. :9

Agreed.

It is actually how the country was founded in fact.

Before M1 tanks and F-15's.

Your point?

I think his point was that the citizens of the revolutionary days had force that matched the force of the government they were seeking to overthrow and break away from, muskets and bayonets.

Modern revolutionaries, with their AKs and AR15's and even fully automatic machine guns, would be stomped like dirt if they tried to break away in a violent revolution because the US Military (the force that would be objecting to the revolution) has tanks and jets and would smoke any revolutionary group of trouble-makers...quick-like.

Ok I want to ask some questions first....

We didn't 'stomp like dirt' the insurgency in Iraq, which was basically a bunch of guys with AKs. So why would this be different?

Do you think the majority of the US military would be willing to fire upon US citizens?


The English Army at that time was far more advanced than the Colonial Army of the day. The English had ships of war, solid logistics, superior cannon, superior muskets and more disciplined and well fed soldiers. Yeah they didn't have tanks or jets, but the difference wasn't as small as you seem to think. We really only won that war because of the French helping us out against the English Navy, otherwise Cornwallis would have just escaped to his ships and relocated to a more offensive position.


Personally I don't feel that violent revolution will happen unless something supremely dramatic happens politically or economically. It would take a lot to get the US riled up enough to put their lives on the line for a cause. The 'what ifs' are interesting to converse upon though, as this is a fairly odd time in our history when economics, politics and world events are all coming together with more frequency.

Problem is those insurgence bastards hate us and are willing to die.

The goverment would have to do something extreme and hateful so that people would actually have a reason to take arms agaist the U.S. armies. Its not gonna happen.

How about everyone should own a gun for a invasion from a foriegn country and not against our own.

And look at the casualty ratio as well. The US military is highly trained, regardless of branch.

I doubt the reality of a second violent American Revolution also...I was only trying to infer what he meant when he said "Before tanks and jets".

From a brute force and military might standpoint, we stomped Saddam's Iraqi Army - the insurgency we are facing now is more like the Colonists of the Revolutionary days - Colonial soldiers (ala The Patriot & Mel Gibson) used guerrilla tactics and dirty tricks to counter the British...they didnt wear uniforms, they hid in trees and shot officers, etc.

That, to me, sounds a lot like us vs. the Insurgents. They blend in and don't follow the rules of the Geneva Conventions while we stand there in our BDUs and drive in our marked convoys and get sniped on guard patrol and blasted by IEDs.




Now then - as for "Do you think the majority of the US military would be willing to fire upon US citizens?" - the good ones who follow orders and are loyal to the government they are serving would.

I would expect, if the feces hit the ceiling mounted air circulation device, that some divisions in certain parts of the country and certain national guard armories would be loyal to the revolution because of shared political ideals - I would expect those people to shoot the mother-country's citizens and soldiers as well, if they are fighting for their freedom from some unimaginably oppressive government they want to be rid of.

Yeah, Americans would shoot Americans. It's been done before (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_Massacre). Hell, Americans shoot Americans over romantic relationships, bad drug deals, social misunderstandings, and gang turf wars all the time. Why would a real-deal revolution be any different?

I still think its VERY unlikely though.

Originally Posted by jason_jinx

Problem is those insurgence bastards hate us and are willing to die.

The goverment would have to do something extreme and hateful so that people would actually have a reason to take arms agaist the U.S. armies. Its not gonna happen.

How about everyone should own a gun for a invasion from a foriegn country and not against our own.

I agree with Jason, but I missed his post because my forums were lagging. Damn ping.

Originally Posted by jason_jinx

Problem is those insurgence bastards hate us and are willing to die.

The government would have to do something extreme and hateful so that people would actually have a reason to take arms against the U.S. armies. Its not gonna happen.

How about everyone should own a gun for a invasion from a foreign country and not against our own.

It is not outside the realm of possibility for the government to do hateful things, look at history within our own country and you will see several times when the US military has been called in to quell things. (Consultant even lists some). The reason that many of these bumps in the road were so quickly resolved is because of the amount of opposition compared to the amount of military. The civil war was one where the nation was divided more evenly, though in the end the nation with the most money to back their war won.

While I do not think that anything currently is at this point, I do believe it folly to think that it could 'never' happen. I'm sure Phoenix never thought it would be #2 worldwide in kidnappings, yet it is happening.

The insurgents, as wrong as I think their Ideology is, are dieing for their religion and ideals which are very powerful things. I do think the US would have to either get to a point where our rights and freedoms are at jeopardy or our economic situation so dire that folks are starving in order for any armed resistance to the US government to happen.