Universal Health Care

**SJA** · 05-08-09, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by triggerhappy2005

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Funny i don't remember the right to visit a doctor at someone elses exspence being in the costitution or the bill of rights.

Nor is written that the police should come to your house if someone is trying to break in.

Since when have police and fire response been federally controlled? Are you advocating that next since everyone doesnt have equal access to police and fire response?

**Blakeman** · 05-08-09, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

It does not say supply welfare.

Nope it doesn't it says promote. If there is a way to promote it or fix it where everyone can at least get basic coverage then I'm all for that over a socialized system run by the fed. So far all I see is "No Socialized health care" or the opposite, nobody is trying anything to fix the current system so it is affordable to everyone.

The fix might happen through the back end by making it easier to pay for school to become a doctor or through deregulating some of the pharmaceutical business.

I do believe everyone has a right to live healthy and to be able to see a doctor if they are in pain or their life is in danger. I also think that if we can do it through the free market capitalist system then lets do it, but not at the expense of going "Fuck it, you are poor. Go ahead and die already."

There is a balance somewhere and it doesn't have to be socialized medicine but it should be somewhere where everyone can at least get basic things done.

**deathgodusmc** · 05-08-09, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by SoySoldier

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

wel·fare (wlfâr)
1.
a. Health, happiness, and good fortune; well-being.
b. Prosperity.
2. Welfare work.
3.
a. Financial or other aid provided, especially by the government, to people in need.
b. Corporate welfare.

Exactly my point. Disease and illness is just as detrimental to socities wellfare as terrorism, fires, crime and other things I know people, like you Death, gladly support.

Should I suggest you are lazy for not paying security contractors to defend your home? Suggesting people are lazy for not buying insurance seems about the same when we consider the words on our constitution. But beyond that, it is just common sense. We pay the government to protect our wellfare from these other negative factors, illness and injury is no different...except that a few people stand to make a huge amount of money by keeping people riled up about the dangers of socialism and laziness, thus keeping healthcare fully marketized.

I think you misunderstand what i am saying Soy. I do not disagree that health care coverage for everyone is a bad idea in whole. The problem with it is people are lazy. They take advange of the system and the rest of us end up paying for. Look at welfare, food stamps, disability, unemployment, wic, and so forth the system is heavily flawed. The lazy have ruined it for the rest of us. So i for one am not willing to give them another oportinity to fuck me again.

You can't put it out there without fixing the whole system. Of which would take a long time to do. I'm willing to go for it but i'm guessing all of those that like sitting home collecting a check for watching tv when it comes down to it aren't.

Those working at minimum wage jobs do so by choice. No one even told them to go work there. Nor did anyone tell them to stay there. There is nothing stopping them from getting a better job. They have all kinds of grants and assistance for them to go back to school to do something they like and make more money other than the fact they think the rest of us should feel pitty for them and should help them.

I for one do not. The spoon i eat off of isn't silver. Health care is there for those that are low income. I know its there I just put floors in a new building for Orange County Community Health Center (low income). It's there so they don't get to choose but in my opinion they did get that chance the minute they CHOOSE not to make a better life for them selves.

**HuntnJade** · 05-08-09, 12:40 PM

Despite my best efforts to be more liberal minded- I just can't get there. I want responsibility to fall on the shoulders of each man. I want people to have to carry their own burden so as to be more likely not to over burden. I want people to work for what they need as diligently as they do for what they want . I would love to be able to be generous of spirit and give to what I believe to be a cause rather than have the government decide it for me.
The only way I know to train people to survive is to make them. If they believe they need government to provide their health care, or to referee it, then magically it becomes so for them. My dollar being spent at my will is all the leverage I have ever needed to get the service I desire. I like my system.
While I am at it- I would love if Santa Claus actually came down chimneys and gave everybody presents at Christmas....

I won't agree with you. I can't. I will however give you the right to your opinion and the one up that you are a "nicer" person than me. I am not generous or nice when it comes to being forced to do something. I can only feel good for and be proud of what I do of my own free will and my tax dollars going to this is DEFINITELY against my will. How many jackasses are we gonna have to pay to "referee" this new system? Tax dollars will be spent friends.

**Blakeman** · 05-08-09, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by HuntnJade

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Jade by that thought though, if you have a burglar in your house it doesn't affect me, so why should I pay for the police to come out and protect you?

There is a medium that needs to be achieved that is not a totalitarian system of health care but is better than the one we currently have.

But they will also come to YOUR house when it gets broke into, or wreck your car, or get attacked by ferral dogs... it is a community service. Healthcare, right now, is not- it is personal and private. Just the way I like it.

I understand wanting to keep it private, but should that come at the expense of someones life that just doesn't have money?

Honestly it all gives me a headache. I like helping people in need but I also don't trust the federal government either. Charity does a lot to help folks, maybe in the end that can be expanded upon somehow.

**SapiensErus** · 05-08-09, 12:46 PM

And again, as with those tables I posted, our surrent system costs us MORE as a percent than the countries that have public health care. You say you don't want to pay more for them, but according to the empirical evidence you pay more with our current system. The countries with public health care pay less per pserson AND less as a percentage of the national budget on health care. So that argument: I don't want to pay more for them, is simply not valid according to the evidence.

**deathgodusmc** · 05-08-09, 12:47 PM

I hate to say it but it is as easy as
If someone's hungry what serves them better giving them a meal or teaching them how to fish.

**-Sauso-** · 05-08-09, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Originally Posted by SoySoldier

Originally Posted by Blakeman

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

wel·fare (wlfâr)
1.
a. Health, happiness, and good fortune; well-being.
b. Prosperity.
2. Welfare work.
3.
a. Financial or other aid provided, especially by the government, to people in need.
b. Corporate welfare.

Exactly my point. Disease and illness is just as detrimental to socities wellfare as terrorism, fires, crime and other things I know people, like you Death, gladly support.

Should I suggest you are lazy for not paying security contractors to defend your home? Suggesting people are lazy for not buying insurance seems about the same when we consider the words on our constitution. But beyond that, it is just common sense. We pay the government to protect our wellfare from these other negative factors, illness and injury is no different...except that a few people stand to make a huge amount of money by keeping people riled up about the dangers of socialism and laziness, thus keeping healthcare fully marketized.

I think you misunderstand what i am saying Soy. I do not disagree that health care coverage for everyone is a bad idea in whole. The problem with it is people are lazy. They take advange of the system and the rest of us end up paying for. Look at welfare, food stamps, disability, unemployment, wic, and so forth the system is heavily flawed. The lazy have ruined it for the rest of us. So i for one am not willing to give them another oportinity to fuck me again.

You can't put it out there without fixing the whole system. Of which would take a long time to do. I'm willing to go for it but i'm guessing all of those that like sitting home collecting a check for watching tv when it comes down to it aren't.

Those working at minimum wage jobs do so by choice. No one even told them to go work there. Nor did anyone tell them to stay there. There is nothing stopping them from getting a better job. They have all kinds of grants and assistance for them to go back to school to do something they like and make more money other than the fact they think the rest of us should feel pitty for them and should help them.

I for one do not. The spoon i eat off of isn't silver. Health care is there for those that are low income. I know its there I just put floors in a new building for Orange County Community Health Center (low income). It's there so they don't get to choose but in my opinion they did get that chance the minute they CHOOSE not to make a better life for them selves.

Tax dollars being already used for the bold parts in your post..

i say fuck everyone and lets all be selfish :3

**Blakeman** · 05-08-09, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

I hate to say it but it is as easy as
If someone's hungry what serves them better giving them a meal or teaching them how to fish.

Can't fish when you are dead.

Who is going to teach them?

**deathgodusmc** · 05-08-09, 12:54 PM

Soy that arguement does not have all the info in it. Yes they pay for it but many things are taxed at a higher rate. So to say we pay more for it the way it is something you can't provide complete proof of any more than i can say we do not pay as much.

It is based on numbers for which many of the same people that will not get jobs or will not even make an atempt to have a better life. The think we should all just put it out there for them. So they don't have to get out of there chair.

I'll help anyone but first show me why i should give a shit because if you don't care enough to even try then why the hell should I.