Thread: I don't like the nanny state, but I am not sure about this one....

Originally Posted by Blakeman

He is 13, if he can cognitively say that this is his choice as religion then it is legit. I do agree with you guys that if he is mentally retarded then the state could step in. The fishy part is that he had one treatment.

If he is dead set on not having the treatment and says so without his parents in the room to guilt/force/coerce him into their decision then he should be left to his own devices.

The problem with some laws is that we set an arbitrary age on when a person has 'free will'. I've met some damn smart 16 year olds that know what they think, and some that couldn't figure out how to dress themselves.

Regardless, I think all can agree that this is a tough situation.

Can he though? He doesn't even really understand his religion if you read the article. Which makes you wonder if his choice is indeed religion or just the parents feeding it down his throat.

Further, in personal opinion, they should have seperated him from his parents for a day or so, just to sit down and find out what he truely thinks. Its very possible for him to say one thing because his parents around, even if he doesn't believe in it.

Originally Posted by Red_Lizard2

Originally Posted by Blakeman

He is 13, if he can cognitively say that this is his choice as religion then it is legit. I do agree with you guys that if he is mentally retarded then the state could step in. The fishy part is that he had one treatment.

If he is dead set on not having the treatment and says so without his parents in the room to guilt/force/coerce him into their decision then he should be left to his own devices.

The problem with some laws is that we set an arbitrary age on when a person has 'free will'. I've met some damn smart 16 year olds that know what they think, and some that couldn't figure out how to dress themselves.

Regardless, I think all can agree that this is a tough situation.

I agree with that, as long as it is done in an unbiased way. Everything seems a bit fishy to me. Is this just the parents using religion as an excuse to 'get rid of' a child with mental disabilities? Is he fully aware? If he isn't then the state needs to step in, if he is then it is his choice and the state should leave him be.

Can he though? He doesn't even really understand his religion if you read the article. Which makes you wonder if his choice is indeed religion or just the parents feeding it down his throat.

Further, in personal opinion, they should have seperated him from his parents for a day or so, just to sit down and find out what he truely thinks. Its very possible for him to say one thing because his parents around, even if he doesn't believe in it.

I honestly don't see how anyone can take the parent's side. This idea that 'because its a religion' it can excuse anything is ludicrous. You can't physically injure your kids, even if someone starts a little cult religion and convinces you that beating him black and blue will remove his demons. You can't own a pool without a fence because if you stand there and watch him drown that's negligence, its murder through passivity. Even if your religion requires a pool and condemns fences, it doesn't matter, if you passively or actively let your child's health become lethally detrimental then you are not fit to make the decisions about that child's health and well being.

As far as this being about 'rights', that's even a more horrible way to look at it. You do not have any 'rights' as a parent, period. Your child is born with rights, and as a minor he is legally unable to claim them, so as a child's legal guardian you are charged with protecting your child's rights. That does not make them yours, a child has rights and 99% of the time its natural born parents will do a better job of protecting them than any other person or entity. When children are taken from their parents for reasons we can all agree on, such as molestation or negligence (like letting them starve) the rights of the parent are not being revoked, the rights of the child are simply being asserted by the government which has the duty of assuming the responsibility of guarding that child's rights when it is apparent that its parents are not.

Children are SO impressionable. You can get children to claim that they have been molested and raped when they have NOT been. (If you don't believe me watch the documentary Witch Hunt, parents who never touched their kids watched them testify that they'd been raped in a courtroom, it happened in the early eighties, and once the kids became adults/teenagers they recanted everything) So the idea that you can ask the kid if he wants medical treatment and then when he says 'no' this proves nothing except that he's a kid who wants to make his parents happy and will say anything to do so. There is no 'arbitrary age' of free will, there are minors and there are adults. You can't support this 13 year old's decision to refuse treatment without giving him the full rights of an adult, which includes marriage, enrolling in the army, alcohol, etc.

The government didn't revoke any rights in this case, it simply protected them.

Also, as a side note, it is absolutely impossible to think that the government was wrong in this case but be opposed to abortion. You'd support an embryo's right to live but not a 13 year old's?

I think he's referring to the flu vaccine that came out and the VP and Pres took to instill confidence in its use and not referring to the the vapor rub. The flu vaccine, from what I understand, is in short supply and always goes up quickly although priority are given to children and the elderly.

Thought this was an interesting turn of events. I wonder where they went?


Pulled from Yahoo

NEW ULM, Minn. – Authorities nationwide were on the lookout Wednesday for a mother and her 13-year-old cancer-stricken son who fled after refusing the chemotherapy that doctors say could save the boy's life.

Colleen Hauser and her son, Daniel, who has Hodgkin's lymphoma, apparently left their southern Minnesota home sometime after a doctor's appointment and court-ordered X-ray on Monday showed his tumor had grown.

Brown County District Judge John Rodenberg, who had ruled last week that Daniel's parents were medically neglecting him, issued an arrest warrant Tuesday for Colleen Hauser and ruled her in contempt of court. Rodenberg also ordered that Daniel be placed in foster care and immediately evaluated by a cancer specialist for treatment.

The family belongs to a religious group that believes in "natural" healing methods. Daniel has testified he believed chemotherapy would kill him and told the judge that if anyone tried to force him to take it, "I'd fight it. I'd punch them and I'd kick them."

The boy's father, Anthony Hauser, testified he didn't know where his wife and son were but had made no attempt to find them. He testified he last saw his son Monday morning, and he saw his wife only briefly that evening when she said she was leaving "for a time."

As of Wednesday morning, the mother and son still had not been found, said Carl Rolloff, a sheriff's dispatcher.

Officials distributed the arrest warrant nationwide. Brown County Sheriff Rich Hoffman said Tuesday that investigators were following some leads locally, but declined to elaborate.

"It's absolutely crazy. It's very disappointing," James Olson, the attorney representing Brown County Family Services. "We're trying to do what's right for this young man."

A message left at the Hauser home in Sleepy Eye early Wednesday wasn't immediately returned. But in an interview in Wednesday's editions of the Star Tribune of Minneapolis, Anthony Hauser said he knew places where his wife might have gone though he did not know where she was.

He said he and his wife had a plan for Tuesday's hearing and he was a "bit disappointed" she didn't follow it. "We were going to present a treatment plan to the court. If they didn't go with it, we would appeal it," he told the newspaper.

"I know many people around here who have had cancer, they did the chemo, it would come back," Hauser told the newspaper. "They did the chemo again and again and they are all in the grave. Chemo isn't foolproof."

Olson, the family services lawyer, had considered asking the judge to hold Anthony Hauser in contempt as well, but he said Wednesday he decided against that.

"I'm thinking that he probably doesn't know where his wife and child are," Olson said.

Daniel's Hodgkin's lymphoma, diagnosed in January, is considered highly curable with chemotherapy and radiation, but the boy quit chemo after a single treatment.

The judge has said Daniel, who has a learning disability and cannot read, did not understand the risks and benefits of chemotherapy and didn't believe he was ill.

The Hausers are Roman Catholic and also believe in the "do no harm" philosophy of the Nemenhah Band, a Missouri-based religious group that believes in natural healing methods advocated by some American Indians. Colleen Hauser testified earlier that she had been treating his cancer with herbal supplements, vitamins, ionized water and other natural alternatives.

The founder of Nemenhah, Philip Cloudpiler Landis, said it was a bad idea for Colleen Hauser to flee with her son. "You don't solve anything by disregarding the order of the judge," Landis said.

The family's doctor, James Joyce, testified by telephone that he examined Daniel on Monday, and that an X-ray showed his tumor had grown to the size it was when he was first diagnosed.

"He had basically gotten back all the trouble he had in January," the doctor said.

Joyce testified that he offered to make appointments for Daniel with oncologists, but the Hausers declined, then left in a rush with lawyer Susan Daya.

"Under Susan Daya's urging, they indicated they had other places to go," Joyce said.

Daya did not immediately respond to a call Tuesday from The Associated Press. The court also tried to reach her during the hearing, but got no answer.

Minnesota statutes require parents to provide necessary medical care for a child, Rodenberg wrote. The statutes say alternative and complementary health care methods aren't enough.