Thread: Reganomics

Originally Posted by Potemkine

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Originally Posted by Potemkine

Originally Posted by hawgballs

Here are some good ones..................

The ketchup as a vegetable controversy or ketchupgate refers to a proposed United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) Food and Drug Administration directive, early in the administration of Ronald Reagan, that would have reclassified ketchup and pickle relish from condiments to a vegetable, allowing public schools to cut out a serving of cooked or fresh vegetable from hot lunch program child-nutrition requirements. The White House Office of Management and Budget estimated a potential US $1 billion annual savings in the cost of subsidized meals for low-income students.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchup_as_a_vegetable

I could not agree more. I think Regan is one of the most over appreciated presidents in history. Not to mention the fact that he pulled a couple of fast moves that people don't remember. Air traffic controller strike? He fired half if not more of ALL air traffic controllers that went on strike. Admittedly, they were not allowed to strike as they were government employees, however, they had no outlet to voice their grievances. He froze ALL promotions in federal government. There were NO promotions, what so ever in federal agencies for 2 years. How do I know this? My dad got screwed out of a well needed and deserved promotion during this time. Oh, Regan also forced government employees to pay into social security but denied them the use of the benefits. That went on for a year before the Supreme Court had to finally put the cabash on it. If I remember correctly, he also screwed over the postal workers some how, but I dont remember. Regan = a piece of shit as a president.

I remember when reagan fired those air traffic controls. It wasn't like he just said ok your all fired. They threatened to go on strike. They were told they can't and after debating it for a while they went on strike. Even then they were given an oportunity to go back to there jobs without losing them and those chose not to. Then reagan chose not to let them have a job.

Did you ever try to figure out why he froze all promotions on government jobs? Not that i can speak for the man but i would of at the time and still do think he was trying to limit spending to help out but i'm sure there are many other ideas as to why he did it.

He did indeed give them a choice. I am not denying it. But my point is that even had they gone back to work, the status quo would not have changed. They had grievances about working conditions, stress and compensation. Their grievances were not addressed until the FAA had to scramble to find replacements for a large number of air traffic controllers. My point with that is, Regan refused to listen to the controllers' side of the story. Go back to a high stress level job with crap pay, or get fired. Sounds like a choice between two piles of shit to me.

I would agree that his decision to put a hiring/promotion freeze for two years was a decision to curb spending. But why promotions and why for 2 full years? Under the Pendleton Civil Service Act and the Civil Service Reform Act of 1973, it established a system of promotion and advancement based on merit. Regan's decision to freeze promotions violated these two laws. Admittedly, working life is hardly fair, but to deny thousands of people promotions they deserved...? Thats just down right inconsiderate and a slap in the face of the merit system. What possible defense of Regan is there that would justify forcing federal workers to pay into social security and medicare (whether or not you agree with the programs) and then deny these people paying into the system the benefits? I would LOVE to know. The way I see it, its stealing.

Reganomics works? I beg to differ. If Reaganomics works, then how do you explain the bubble bursts/recession of 1988/1989 and of 1991/1992? Regan ends his presidency in 1988 and George H.W. Bush, not George W. Bush comes in as president, continuing the practice of Reaganomics. Reaganomics then caused not one, but two recessions. So how exactly does Reaganomics succeed again?

Reagan wanted to cut spending? No. He wanted to reduce taxes but not spending.
from the CATO Institute:

Let's look at the facts. Compared to the same point in Reagan's first term, not only is Bush a bigger spender than Reagan, he's a big spender in his own right. Adjusted for inflation, total spending under Bush's watch will have increased by 14 percent as opposed to 7 percent under Reagan. But more indicative of Bush's spending problem is the run-up in discretionary spending under his watch. Discretionary spending represents funds for programs that Congress has to allocate for on an annual basis and it is the type of spending that the president has the most influence over.

So tell me again....why is Reagan the president that all Republicans wish to compare themselves to? When looking at the facts, he was a dismal failure. I would argue that Reagan is more similar to Obama than other Republicans. Both had tremendous charisma and both had little experience as politicians. Remember, Reagan was an actor for a very long time. In 20 years history is going to be a lot more harsh on Reagan once his policies are picked apart and the effects analyzed.

They are government employees not auto workers. Whats next? When does our military get to go on strike?

It wan't just the FAA that was put on hold. It was every governemt job. What would you rather him of done? Promote everyone then borrow the money from China to pay for it. It was a drastic move that did pay off.

Obama has done the same thing with social security this year. No one gets an increase but i dont see a thread bashing Obama for that call.

I don't see history picking apart Reagan. He did way more good than he did bad but at least he made an honest effort. Did he make mistakes sure he did.

I would like to see how you say he/his policies are a failure. I don't see the economy going up and down a little as a failure because if thats how we are going to judge it then this country has been failing since it started.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

They are government employees not auto workers. Whats next? When does our military get to go on strike?

I don't think members of the military are comparable to government employees and private sector employees.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

It wan't just the FAA that was put on hold. It was every governemt job. What would you rather him of done? Promote everyone then borrow the money from China to pay for it. It was a drastic move that did pay off.

That's pretty much what he did, anyways. The national debt and deficit exploded under Reagan.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Obama has done the same thing with social security this year. No one gets an increase but i dont see a thread bashing Obama for that call.

There was no cost of living adjustment because the cost of living went down due to negative inflation. That wasn't Obama's call, but he has talked about sending a $250 check to try and make up for it. We'll see.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

I don't see history picking apart Reagan. He did way more good than he did bad but at least he made an honest effort. Did he make mistakes sure he did.

I would like to see how you say he/his policies are a failure. I don't see the economy going up and down a little as a failure because if thats how we are going to judge it then this country has been failing since it started.

Then by this logic you have no right to criticize Obama, correct? I mean, after all, he is making an "honest effort." And Reaganomics failures extend far past just Reagan. Both Bushs continued to use it to devastating effect.

Originally Posted by Fovezer

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

They are government employees not auto workers. Whats next? When does our military get to go on strike?

I don't think members of the military are comparable to government employees and private sector employees.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

It wan't just the FAA that was put on hold. It was every governemt job. What would you rather him of done? Promote everyone then borrow the money from China to pay for it. It was a drastic move that did pay off.

That's pretty much what he did, anyways. The national debt and deficit exploded under Reagan.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

Obama has done the same thing with social security this year. No one gets an increase but i dont see a thread bashing Obama for that call.

There was no cost of living adjustment because the cost of living went down due to negative inflation. That wasn't Obama's call, but he has talked about sending a $250 check to try and make up for it. We'll see.

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

I don't see history picking apart Reagan. He did way more good than he did bad but at least he made an honest effort. Did he make mistakes sure he did.

I would like to see how you say he/his policies are a failure. I don't see the economy going up and down a little as a failure because if thats how we are going to judge it then this country has been failing since it started.

Then by this logic you have no right to criticize Obama, correct? I mean, after all, he is making an "honest effort." And Reaganomics failures extend far past just Reagan. Both Bushs continued to use it to devastating effect.

All opinion and personal spectualation to suit what you want to see. I am waiting to see if Obama actaully is putting in an honest effort. As for now i dont see it but who knows.

What ever happened to "Its not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".

Originally Posted by Potemkine

Originally Posted by deathgodusmc

They are government employees not auto workers. Whats next? When does our military get to go on strike?

It wan't just the FAA that was put on hold. It was every governemt job. What would you rather him of done? Promote everyone then borrow the money from China to pay for it. It was a drastic move that did pay off.

Obama has done the same thing with social security this year. No one gets an increase but i dont see a thread bashing Obama for that call.

I don't see history picking apart Reagan. He did way more good than he did bad but at least he made an honest effort. Did he make mistakes sure he did.

I would like to see how you say he/his policies are a failure. I don't see the economy going up and down a little as a failure because if thats how we are going to judge it then this country has been failing since it started.

Great analogy between the military and air traffic controllers. That made me stop and think for a minute. The difference between the military and air traffic controllers though, is that when in the military, there are various outlets in which issues that arise in the military can be settled with. At the time, no such thing existed for air traffic controllers.

I first said that the hold on promotions was for every government agency. As you have said, and I agree with, the purpose of him not promoting everyone that deserved it was an economical one. If this is the case, then according to an analysis by the CATO Institute:

If we reject higher taxes, then we have only one alternative for reducing the deficit: spending cuts. So far, most of the talk about spending cuts in Washington has been just that: talk. The Reagan administration's own prediction is that federal spending will increase by about $73 billion in 1982 and by another $37 billion in 1983. Spending in FY 1983, the first real Reagan budget, will be about $110 billion higher than President Carter's last full budget. Outside estimates, of course, are for even higher spending. Though the headlines have been full of proposed cuts the last few months, Congress's First Budget Resolution calls for even higher spending than in the Reagan budget.

$110....BILLION more than Carter's budget. With that much more, he can surely afford to promote those deserving and have plenty left.

Obama's decision to not increase social security is vastly different than Reagan's decision to stop promotions for 2 years. While both technically are "saving" money, the decision to not increase social security outlay for inflation is a legal decision. Denying promotions for the ENTIRE US government is not. Not to mention the fact that the increase in per check per person is vastly lower for social security than the pay raise associated with a promotion.

You could say that EVERY president made an honest attempt to make the country a better place.

As the country grew so did the economy. Yes, it had its ups and downs, but the general trend of the economy was always upward, and growing. His only success in my opinion was outspending the Soviets, causing a collapse of their system. While the hastening the end of the Soviets is a huge fact, he only increased the deficit. Not to mention slashing the budgets of key programs like education and the EPA amongst others.

Finding data to support or disprove of my argument or yours is rather difficult to come by when you are looking for reliable sources and not just some random internet site.

True could be hard to prove either way.