Thread: Graduated, going to law school. Any lawyers or law students in here?

Originally Posted by Hitch

Good luck Mafioso! I regret not going to Texas Tech Law School many years ago. If I could get my current business under management, perhaps I could attend a small-cheese school around North Dallas. (SMU is too expensive)

Hitch

Thanks man! I'm eager to get started. I'm also hoping financial aid will cover most of the cost so I don't have to work as much. I'll end up graduating with a lot of debt but I wan't to really focus and retain everything I learn.

Originally Posted by MaFioSo

Thanks for the info Ira, very helpful. I have a question about the compensation.


I went to school/passed the Realtor exam in 2007 and have been working ever since. Are lawyers paid in the same way realtors are?

As a realtor, once your have your license pretty much every broker wants you to join their office (with the exception of commercial and luxury home) . I remember the day I got my license I was overwhelmed with the amount of calls and emails from brokers wanting me to join their office. The reason everyone want's you to join their office is this:

As a realtor you don't get paid unless you complete a transaction (sell a home, help someone buy a home, sell a business, etc). When you complete the transaction the standard compensation is 3% for residential and 5% commercial. From that 3% your broker will take anywhere between 10-30% unless you have a 100% commission plan in which you have to pay the broker around $500 regardless if you sell anything.

So basically the broker has nothing to do lose by hiring you. Compensation is 100% commission based. If you don't complete any transaction you don't get paid, and if you do the broker takes a percentage. This is why so many brokers want you to join their office. When I signed with RE/MAX, I was given a small office but after that your on your own. The office will pass on a lead to you every once in a while but for the most part you have to find your own clients.

Is lawyers compensation similar to this? Generally speaking what percentage does a firm take out of your legal fees? Does the firm really generate leads for you or are you basically on your own? The lawyer I spoke with said they are suppose to pass on lead to you but in his situation the owner of his firm would always pass down the good leads to his son.

What are the fees and continuing education requirements associated with the license? As a realtor I have MLS and PAR membership fees. I also have to take 24 hours of courses every 2 years to keep my license active.

It really depends - but for the most part I would say that this is not the way law firms operate. Typically, if you join a reasonable sized firm (say at least 20+) you will start as an associate working for a salary and bonus - this will likely be based on the amount of work you do (billable hours) rather than the amount you generate for yourself. Working for a firm is more like working for a large corporation than anything - the goal is to put your time in and make partner - at that point you will be getting a share of the net enterprise which can be based on a strict forumla (ie you generate X in billings and revenue which means Y dollars) or based on a more seniority based system (tenure and solid performance means you get X share of the profit). It really varies widely based on the firm in question and their compensation method.

If you choose to go out on your own (hang out your shingle) then you will likely find 'office sharing' arrangements where you kick into the kitty for combined expenses and you live and die by what you are able to generate on your own. The ethics rules vary by state but in general fee spliting and revenue sharing outside a firm setting are heavily regulated.

IMO - the path to a good living will lead you to look for a job at a reputable firm and start there as an associate. 1st year lawyers in the better firms in AZ make in the low $100k's (in Texas its around 120k - 140k). The experience and exposure to different types of cases and transactions will be invaluable to your longer term success. As an associate you can expect an annual bonus arrangement based on your productivity, so if you are in a good firm with good work you could be looking at 150k+ in the first year. Smaller firms will be lower. You may bill 500K and the firm may collect that but you won't be compensated based on that - like I said its more like working at a big corporation than anything, you earn a salary until such time as you are made an owner - then you start sharing in the profits of the overall enterprise.

Would it be smart to search schools by which firm hires grads who pass the bar?

One great way to look at what you would be making is to look at the NALP forms for the various firms in the area you want to settle in. These are forms that the individual firms fill out with information for their summer recruiting programs and list starting salary and other information.

Important point - most firms hire out of their summer clerkship programs. This is usually a 6 week job over the summer following your 2nd year of law school. It's a test drive really for the firm to see if you would be a good fit. You will work as a lawyer in the firm during the summer - for pay equal to what a 1st year would make. So you would prolly make like $2000+ per week or so during the program. If they like you then they will offer a full time job when you graduate.

NALP also has info on law schools and thier placement rates. Placement rates are MUCH MUCH more important that bar pass rates.

NALP: NDLS - Directory of Law Schools
NALP: DLE - Directory of Legal Employers

Originally Posted by SmokenScion

Would it be smart to search schools by which firm hires grads who pass the bar?

Bar pass rates are not as important as a law schools placement rate. You really want to be at a school that has a lot of success getting their graduates jobs.

alright dude, maybe I missed something but I thought I said that somewhere in there.

Originally Posted by iravedic

One great way to look at what you would be making is to look at the NALP forms for the various firms in the area you want to settle in. These are forms that the individual firms fill out with information for their summer recruiting programs and list starting salary and other information.

Important point - most firms hire out of their summer clerkship programs. This is usually a 6 week job over the summer following your 2nd year of law school. It's a test drive really for the firm to see if you would be a good fit. You will work as a lawyer in the firm during the summer - for pay equal to what a 1st year would make. So you would prolly make like $2000+ per week or so during the program. If they like you then they will offer a full time job when you graduate.

NALP also has info on law schools and thier placement rates. Placement rates are MUCH MUCH more important that bar pass rates.

NALP: NDLS - Directory of Law Schools
NALP: DLE - Directory of Legal Employers

Wow I'm really glad I came to the forums before I made any decisions on which law school to attend. Now that I think of it when I spoke to the recruiter at Phoenix School of Law they didn't mention anything about placement rates or what percentage of students find work. They just kept going on about how their school had the highest bar exam passage rate in the state. Since they didn't say a word about placement rates, I'm going to assume their not that good. Also thanks for the links, their very helpful. I'm actually going through both the ASU and PSL profiles right now to compare the to.

Originally Posted by iravedic

Bar pass rates are not as important as a law schools placement rate. You really want to be at a school that has a lot of success getting their graduates jobs.

I also found this, 2009 Raw Data Law School Rankings : Employed at Graduation (Descending)

Unfortunately I have to stay in the phoenix metro area so my options are limited.

Proposed UNT Law College : A Public College of Law for DFW and north Texas

Who knows, perhaps I can take my ole' arse back to school, Rodney Dangerfiied style!

Hitch

Originally Posted by Hitch

Proposed UNT Law College : A Public College of Law for DFW and north Texas

Who knows, perhaps I can take my ole' arse back to school, Rodney Dangerfiied style!

Hitch

Go for it man its never to late to go back to school. Unless your like 80 years old...then it's to late :P

Sent From MaFioSo's Phone