Thread: C++ or Java

White,

If you are doing the programming to go hand-in-hand with your physics background or a physics degree I'd say go with the language that any software you would be using with that degree is using, I'd suspect it to be C++. I'd also say C++ because it makes me thing you could eventually get into something like PhysX and using GPU shaders for physics, since they are great for the task.

I personally thing C++ is an outdated language that needs to be replaced with something not so messy while still keeping its lower level nature, but that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

My programming background officially started with VB when I was a kid, but more officially with java in high school and a AP course. Then in college most of my courses were in c++ with 2 or 3 courses being in java again near the end. After graduation I haven't programmed for my job but they mostly use vb/c# with a few groups using J2EE for specific reasons. But that is just in my business unit, I'm sure it changes dramatically for the Aerospace and Missles side of business.

Edit:

Forgot to add, everyone who is a programmer should look into this. Work got me a subscription and I use it on a regular basis. Safari Books Online |

It is an amazing resource.

Also, Visual Studio 2012 is like a gift from the heavens, the dark theme is awesome and the software itself is just amazing.

I think part of the disagreement stems from the differing interpretations of my use of the word "must."

I used to it mean:

If you are serious about programming, you ought to learn linux.

not

If you are serious about programming, you are required to learn linux.

Is that better? If we want to be more general, replace "linux" with "unix." Apologies if I was unclear.

I say that one should learn linux because it is a valuable tool to add to a varied skillset, and I picked linux specifically because I assumed that White is already familiar with a non-linux OS, such as Windows.

Also, by "know linux," I don't mean that you have to the intricacies of how the kernel works. I specifically stated that basic knowledge is beneficial. Both kanati and warprosper say that linux is unnecessary but then go on to mention how they have used it at least once. Even if it were a trivial use case, you still used it at least once, and subsequently, cursory familiarity with the OS can only be a benefit.

This is particularly because linux is a very common OS, especially in development; I would not necessarily suggest the same for a more obscure OS.

Originally Posted by gehn

It's true. Starting salary for programmers at the defense contractor I work for is $60k and they do 90% of their programming for the business unit I work for in C#/VB/Java.

Oh, that isn't where you were going with this? Shame.

I said more employable, not "a necessity for employment." See above.

Originally Posted by Bunni

nothing and i repeat nothing even comes close to comparing to visual studios. This is a rare moment when you wil hear me compliment a mic$oft product... nothing beats the features provided by visual stuidios, period. If mic$oft ever did anything right, it was visual studios. For gots sake i can modify code on the fly without needing to recompile. Hell if you say visual studios is alright you must be working on small projects... I honestly, cannot imagine trying to work on a 100+ file project let alone one thats 1000+ files without visual studios...

You are correct. I have not had much experience with VS with enterprise apps, because my enterprise C++ experience has been linux based. I was mistaken to make an ill-informed judgement about VS, and I retract the flippant statement that I should not have made.

For those are curious, my experience that is relevant to this thread includes:
Enterprise C++ development with various unix-based distros
Enterprise Java web-app development with Eclipse on Windows
Small C++ project development with VS and Qt on Windows
Various non-C++/Java programming (including VB) on various OSes

My large experiences:
Enterprise Java web-app development with large oracle back end with Netbeans and Eclipse on Windows and Linux.
Enterprise level product rollouts using Novell software scripting.
Software Engineering (read this as software design) focus at college.

And my likes/hates:
I like java's forced object oriented design.
I hate designing/writing front ends (ESPECIALLY WEB).
I am a database / back end optimization guy.


Ok, so after that, what would I recommend I would say if you have the option you should try to take a java class or two to learn good structure and get come concepts and what good code looks like. Then switch to C++ for the rest as that is a meatier language and will give you more opportunity to screw up and learn from your mistakes.

You also have to know what you want to do with the knowledge afterwords, if you are going to use it in the physics field, know what specifically you want to use it to do. Are you going to teach/educate, if so java would be nicer to build visual aids. Are you going into research, if so then C++ or Assembly or Python or SCADA would be more helpful. Are you going to abandon the physics field and go into something programming related....... All of that affects what would be most useful to you after you get out of school.

As far as learning a language goes. I try to teach people high level concepts and structure first (after they understand how to write basic stuff), before I teach any hardware related programming (memory management, pointers, optimizations). Then after an understanding of both you branch out into specific areas, like parallelization (multi-threading), Large class designs (inheritance), specific specialties of any one language.


So yeah, both are good options for different things, java is better at teaching structure of classes, while C++ makes hardware more available to be fiddled with.

Can anyone recommend a good text on C++?

C++ Programming Language by Stroustrup

This is a book that I really like to use and it is very easy to understand.

C++ Without Fear : A Beginners Guide That Makes You Feel Smart: Amazon.com: Books

And there also seems to be a second edition(more recent)
C++ Without Fear: A Beginner's Guide That Makes You Feel Smart (2nd Edition): Brian Overland: 9780132673266: Amazon.com: Books#_

Originally Posted by gehn

It's true. Starting salary for programmers at the defense contractor I work for is $60k and they do 90% of their programming for the business unit I work for in C#/VB/Java.

Oh, that isn't where you were going with this? Shame.

Well, to be fair, you can say that about pretty much ANY language. My employer starts out college grads in the programming field at ~$70k. The languages used most? PXL, TCL and Perl.