4890 / Vsync / TF2

**~~Cecil900~~** · 04-24-09, 05:38 PM

I think its something ATi is just going to have to iron out in some new drivers. I think all you can do right now is just wait and see if they fix it, and if in a driver update or two they don't then you need to dive farther into it. Its still a relatively new card.

**Veovis** · 04-29-09, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Cecil900

I think its something ATi is just going to have to iron out in some new drivers. I think all you can do right now is just wait and see if they fix it, and if in a driver update or two they don't then you need to dive farther into it. Its still a relatively new card.

I don't think there's anything for ATI to fix... what's the problem?

Still a tough choice for me. Played a long time with vsync off and it did seem smoother (seemed more sensitive too) but I just couldn't stand the tearing.

Turned the vsync back on, and immediately it felt very laggy and slow and almost made me sick. But then I got used to it again, and it is just so nice not to have to look at tearing.

Really touch choice.

**jason_jinx** · 04-29-09, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Veovis

Originally Posted by Cecil900

I think its something ATi is just going to have to iron out in some new drivers. I think all you can do right now is just wait and see if they fix it, and if in a driver update or two they don't then you need to dive farther into it. Its still a relatively new card.

I don't think there's anything for ATI to fix... what's the problem?

Still a tough choice for me. Played a long time with vsync off and it did seem smoother (seemed more sensitive too) but I just couldn't stand the tearing.

Turned the vsync back on, and immediately it felt very laggy and slow and almost made me sick. But then I got used to it again, and it is just so nice not to have to look at tearing.

Really touch choice.

laggy?

post a screen during a firefight with net_graph 1 showing the fps

**Veovis** · 04-29-09, 10:29 PM

By "laggy" I obviously don't mean that it increased my network latency. What I mean is that the control input lag that Coors mentioned is noticeable to me. Try turning vsync off and see how different the controls feel. I am not sure which is better... it definitely seems "less responsive" with vsync on, but if you are used to it that way, it can feel "too responsive" with it off.

**Captain Coors** · 04-30-09, 12:40 AM

The technical reason for mouse lag is that with vsync on, there is buffering going on between your graphics card sending a refresh rate matched image to your monitor.

The mouse input has to wait for the buffering which causes the input lag. Different game engines and hardware cause different results and intensity of the problem, but its always there, just maybe not noticeable by everyone.

One big reason I cap my fps is for physics consistency with the game engine. I don't want the fps flying between 60 and 200 fps, it makes the physics feel weird to me, like rockets and grenades have a different "feel".

I also completely misspoke above when I said turn on triple buffering, now that I read up a little more. Triple buffering is a setting that is actually used when vsync is on, not off. It makes the lag even worse than the default vsync double buffering. I thought it reduced the vsync delay, I had it wrong.

**Veovis** · 04-30-09, 01:36 AM

Yeh, I get it. But the tearing still drives me crazy.

**Veovis** · 06-28-09, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by Captain Coors

I also completely misspoke above when I said turn on triple buffering, now that I read up a little more. Triple buffering is a setting that is actually used when vsync is on, not off. It makes the lag even worse than the default vsync double buffering. I thought it reduced the vsync delay, I had it wrong.

Bump. Just read a very interesting article on Anandtech, which says otherwise on both points.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3591&p=1

Very informative with excellent examples. So triple buffering gives all the benefits of vsync (no tearing) PLUS all the benefits of no vsync (high framerates and no minimal input lag)... and its only cost is a little extra video memory. But apparently most games don't include a triple buffering option, and TF2 is one of them.

I am going to toy around with trying to force triple buffering at the driver level somehow...