Thread: The jockey needs work!

Why would I initiate with the hunter in that case? You are trying to use them similarly when you can't. I'd try to get the boom off first. Hunt, spit, smoke. Unless... and there are soooo many variables at work that you can't say "I'd do it this way" every time. As enf said, it's very dynamic and you have to think on your feet and determine who needs to initiate, and that person needs to KNOW that they need to initiate based on what SI are spawning. And then everyone else needs to follow... and it has to happen at an optimal TIME... It has to happen at an optimal PLACE... Too many varibles to determine and that's why most teams still SUCK at SI. They will get better with time. BUT... To continue my "unless"... Unless there's one survivor off by himself. Then, initiate with the pounce/spit. And go from there.

I don't know if someone takes spitter damage while being pounded by a charger. If they do then maybe damage would be the same. I don't care though because I'll use ANY SI and do excellent amounts of damage as long as I do it at the correct time, place and have a good team with me doing the same with their SI as well.

Regardless... The last thing I'm going to do is complain about how I need more hit points, or better hitboxes, or the ability to disengage an attack... I *don't* need any of that. I need a good team knowing how to deal with what they have. I've seen people attack singularly with an SI because they just want to get rid of it. Unless you are doing that because your team wants something different, knowing that they've got a good opportunity for a better attack if they have SI X instead of Y, they aren't helping their team by doing it. Everyone needs to learn how to use every single SI out there if they want to be effective. And they need to learn how to do it in combination with other SI.

There are instances where SI X will be better than Y. But they are contingent on what's going on with the survivors... And not nearly as much as in the original game. For instance, the smoker death pulls in NM and BH can be accomplished in L4D2 with other SI classes... The jockey or charger might actually be better at it (sewer before the impound lot for instance) because they can get them further out of range than the smoker can. But I'd probably want the smoker anyway because he has a long range attack that's much easier to hit than the charger, and the jockey has to get far closer to even think about his attack. A spitter attack on a damaged group at the bottom of that sewer is a game ender... So smoker, spitter, and pretty much any other two at that point would be good.

You just can't pigeonhole different SI because sure, a charger might be better in a tight hallway than a hunter, but that doesn't mean they don't ALL have their uses and together some combinations might be more deadly than others depending on survivor health and location, but they might be even MORE deadly in others.

Originally Posted by Kanati8869

You just can't pigeonhole different SI because sure, a charger might be better in a tight hallway than a hunter, but that doesn't mean they don't ALL have their uses and together some combinations might be more deadly than others depending on survivor health and location, but they might be even MORE deadly in others.

I never said the Hunter didn't have a use, and I imagine there are situations in where he's better than a Charger - though none immediately spring to mind, aside from ninja swipes (which are still hilariously fun.)

That said, once again, the Hunter appears to be destined to fill the same major roles that the Charger fills - namely damage, pinning, and possibly as an initiator. The Hunter isn't very good at disrupting the enemy team because they reverted the changes to his pounce's stagger area, and because he doesn't really move the Survivors at all. He can initiate, but because of his somewhat low health and the fact that he doesn't move his victim or affect the victim's teammates, he's a risky use there. As far as doing damage goes, he's great - tied with Charger for top spot in terms of damage per second, and I know he does double damage to incapped survivors, so he's also damn good at killing ones that are already down.

Again, I just find the Hunter's uses limited in L4D2, largely because of the overlap in his roles with the Charger. I can go down a list of possibilities with any given SI setup and find more possibilities using the Charger than the Hunter. It doesn't mean the Hunter is useless - it just means he's not as good as I feel he should be. If you're going to have a system that randomly assigns SI "classes" to each player (and I wouldn't have it any other way), then each individual SI needs to be as effective as every other one. And I frankly can't say it's the case with a Hunter.

Originally Posted by FragRaptor

Originally Posted by Wraith

Then Frag tried to Leeroy Jenkins the Tank with his chainsaw, earning us another incap.

They said it was a good idea :2

Pizza, you argue too much man.

Probably

No. I don't agree. They just have to be used differently. The spitter at that point becomes critical. The hunter hunts and IMMEDIATELY the spitter spits the hunt. The time it takes for that person get back up after the hunter is shot off means that the acid damage is going to be near maximum. I guarantee you that person will be needing a health kit shortly after. And if the boomer and smoker do their jobs as well, that leaves two people to deal with the horde. And if you haven't realized it yet, even if the smoker doesn't do his own scratch damage, the damage that the horde does to the smoked person adds up VERY quickly depending on how many of them there are.

Kinati, I'm glad you said that! Amazingly, that is a strategy I hadn't thought of yet, I'm happy you brought that to my attention :9

Originally Posted by Solstatic

No. I don't agree. They just have to be used differently. The spitter at that point becomes critical. The hunter hunts and IMMEDIATELY the spitter spits the hunt. The time it takes for that person get back up after the hunter is shot off means that the acid damage is going to be near maximum. I guarantee you that person will be needing a health kit shortly after. And if the boomer and smoker do their jobs as well, that leaves two people to deal with the horde. And if you haven't realized it yet, even if the smoker doesn't do his own scratch damage, the damage that the horde does to the smoked person adds up VERY quickly depending on how many of them there are.

Kinati, I'm glad you said that! Amazingly, that is a strategy I hadn't thought of yet, I'm happy you brought that to my attention :9

Spitter does a ton of damage if you can keep them in the pool for more than about three seconds... it starts ramping up FAST past like 10 hits.

Total damage for the pool is like 81, and 85 for her death pool. Less damage per second than Hunter/Charger overall, but it does a lot of damage very quickly towards the end.

You do take damage from spit while being pummeled by the Charger, I believe. Since the Charger is more effective than the Hunter in that regard, I still classify him to two or three very limited roles in L4D2:

-Distractions
-Swiping almost-dead teams to death
-Beginners

Even still the Charger is a better, longer-lasting distraction than a Hunter. Aside from hit detection, surprisingly, the other SI are superior in every other regard.

Originally Posted by Wraith

You do take damage from spit while being pummeled by the Charger, I believe. Since the Charger is more effective than the Hunter in that regard, I still classify him to two or three very limited roles in L4D2:

-Distractions
-Swiping almost-dead teams to death
-Beginners

Even still the Charger is a better, longer-lasting distraction than a Hunter. Aside from hit detection, surprisingly, the other SI are superior in every other regard.

Listening to people scream about a missed charge is still one of the funnier parts of Versus. I've actually been INSIDE someone's back before, charged, and inexplicably managed to not get them. And then you've got those times where you THOUGHT you missed, and then halfway through the charge you magically pick up someone that was ten feet behind and four feet to your left.

Fun stuff.