Question about teamplay

**MRUBEENHADD** · 07-05-11, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by ATEXANnHISGUN

No reason to lock this thread just yet, This here is exactly what the forums are for - To discuss the game, even the gripes and issues.

So far both parties have remained civil while voicing their complaints. As long as that continues and it does not spiral out of control there is no reason to lock this. P.M.s would have been a better avenue for these two to take their grievances however it is in the open now and who knows maybe they will publicly come to an accord and it will show how we do things here at TPG even when shit does hit the fan.

Agreed, I don't think this was to start a fire honestly, I think it was to get a concept of what most people thought. I think he got a honest answer based on the exact information of the question provided. I think it also has been determined that MANY missing facts for the exact situation this poll might of been based on. But most people have also stated after more of the situation was revealed, that the answers would not exactly be the same as the original question that we all voted on.

**SmokenSherriff_** · 07-06-11, 12:16 AM

I dont think salt necessarily meant ill will, but he is putting me in a situation where he is challenging me. There are the eight guys that were in the game that know who he is talking about. He is trying to make a point. Thats ok but call it like it was. Take into consideration the variables and subjectivness of the game. Then take into consideration who the player is. Do they have a history of ditching a team. These things would of made your approach alot more understandable for me. The way it stands currently your attempt wasnt for community gain or growth but serving yourself in trying to say you were justified in your opinion.

The part I have the hardest time with was the rage quit. Getting mad at me or someone in heat of the moment happens. I regretfully do it as much as anyone. But we talk it out and reason with the situation.

For you to come make a post about teamplay and basically the "TPG way" of doing things and know you blatently and without any grey area chose to break one of the biggest and most look down on actions we at TPG despise really takes some nerve. Your rage quit could of been a three page post like the one you dragged me into salt.

I hope you see this, learn and move forward. I dont hold any of this against you and will be happy to see the salt i know and love.
Sorry i got angry when you challenged me.

Smoke

**Saltspring** · 07-06-11, 12:21 AM

I do enjoy playing with you usually Sheriff but I find you often do not have much faith in your team and that can be frustrating. This was worse as it felt like you completely abandon us, which you did.

Yes I chewed out Tenrou for the night before because when we had enough points to win he simply took off on the final without saying anything leaving the rest of his team wondering where he was, so I wanted to make sure shit like that didn't happen this game.

As to what happened in the tunnel it is very hard to chat while a tank is swinging at you and you are dodging away. The tank wasn't terrible but the three of us did exactly what we should spread out and back away from the tank so he could only go after one of us at a time which works very well in the tunnel due to the fact it is hard for the special infected to attack from the flanks and with the auto snipers we could chew away at him rapidly. I personally find that tunnel one of the best places to fight a tank as long as the person being chased doesn't run into the side tunnels or lead the tank to his teammates.

I've also never understood why people are afraid of tanks, yes I get that if your health is low or you have tier 1 weapons it is often better just to try for distance.

I don't like bailing on people but there was no way I could be civil this time. There are a lot of games where people annoy me but I can keep my cool enough to finish, this wasn't one of those times. It took me about 15 min's to calm down enough to even apologize to the people on my friends list who were in the game and even then I was still a bit pissed and bitched about you a bit Sheriff. I don't like to fight, I am not good at saying things the right way so that it doesn't seem like an attack. Generally I say exactly what I mean and feel.

**B-@-n-@-n-@** · 07-06-11, 12:58 AM

Well I must say I commend both of you for remaining civil. I honestly thought this thread was going to turn into a war zone but I'm happily wrong haha

**Morningfrost** · 07-06-11, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Kanati8869

Knowing now who it was... and that he wasn't drunk (lol)... gotta side with Smoken only in that it was a judgement call... and while it might have been the wrong call, it was made and mistakes happen. A good tank could PROBABLY have taken you all in the tunnel. A bad tank can be killed there. Not knowing which of the two it was, I might make the same choice and run for it. And if someone tries to hold spawn at the top of that ladder for more than 30 seconds... they will likely be snagged by an SI. I might have come back out after finding out the tank died, but that's a huge risk too if they had an SI sitting there waiting for me to do that.

Just way too many things can happen and once in the safe room it's always safest to keep your ass planted right there.

Smoken may piss me off a lot... and we might yell at each other occasionally... but I'd never call him anything other than a teamplayer. An angry angry teamplayer...

but a teamplayer, and one of the best in the game. If he did it, he believed it the right thing to do at the time.

Ragequitting... never a viable option. I've gotten to that point too. Where I just want to shut the computer down and drop kick it out the window. But I won't leave the team hanging. I suggest, Salt, that if you get to that point again you just staple your mouth shut and finish out the game in silence. Or find a replacement before you split. But just up and leaving is not right.

I had a hunter waiting for him to come out. Was going to try and catch him before he got in, but by the time I realized just what he was doing it was too late to rush up there and get a spawn. So I just set up for the hole and kept an eye on Smoken so if he came out I could tear him up

**Walkerxes** · 07-06-11, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by SmokenSherriff_

Salt I think were friends, and I like you. But lets put the situation in perspective from the facts. Then like men take our blame and move on. This isnt really directed at you but overall there is way to much baby like reactions from this game. Seems like someone is always getting their feelings hurt or mad at someone. Frankly im tired of seeing the posts surounding this kinda stuff. I am in no way refering to our situation the other day scrum.

This game is about judgement and instincts. This game like so many others has to many variables to stream line into rules and concrete guidlines in the game. People need to realize that.

So...

We start the game of no mercy with you attacking tenrou, and you telling him how unhappy you were with him about the previous game. Specifically telling him he fucked somthing up and basically starting a fight. Tenrou recieved it pretty well and said "we won the game salt" and somthing else defending his actions. Wrong or right that isnt the point it was and is your approach to this game via your attitude. So game is going fine from this point on... until.

Level 3: For those that dont know and to remind others... Level 3 on no mercy is the level with the lift event. Then the tough chokepoint you can get pulled off by the smoker. Leading to one of the top 3 toughest choke points in the entire game. The ladder up through the man hole.
So we make it to the last set of tunnels with a 300 or so point lead in the game. A tank spawns and we have 1 guy red but just one guy yellow and 2 green. I am one of the greens. We took a really good hit in this tunnel. A spit charge and barely made it through there. We however were slightly split up via that hit. Two of us had to take the other exit that takes you back an bit further in the long tunnel with the ladder to avoid spit. A tank spawns immediately and comes down the ladder. So he had to of just spawned right above the ladder. So he is on us fast. One teamate who went through spit and is in front of me because he went through the straight part to exit into the tunnel says "im healing". someone throws a molly mid way in a part that doesnt have water. Good molly, and lights the tank. Tank comes through hits the guy healing. I wasnt sure if he got finished or not because he flew behind or next to me. So as an experienced player i looked to my left and right and behind me and my back was about 5 ft from the back wall with the tank charging, knowing that in these tunnels tanks never stay on fire. He went by me and so i took off through the fire saying "im running for it". I could not see you all when i looked back because fire and the slant down of that tunnel blocked my view. I also knew that the choke point coming up even if we kill the tank is often death for all without a tank. I felt like it was no brainer and well worth the risk. I went to the top of the ladder and out i was. With smokers and hunters and anything able to get me pretty easily here i took off for safe room. Anyone that says i should of stayed here and waited when the tank absolutely wasnt dead yet is being unrealstic. I made it in the safe room and then heard saw you all's health dropping as you were getting hit on the ladder. For me to come out and give up 25 points for making it when your combined distances making it to the safe room IF we all made it would be about 50 or 60 points would of been stupid. No way...

So that is how it went down. It was the right choice to run with my available and limited knowledge to draw from. Short of having a fortune teller its the best i could do.

So to all of your points it wasnt teamplay, bullshit. To the point i should of waited on the top and blocked spawns... seriously? There was little if any communication at this point because everyone was intently focused on somthing. We were cornered by a tank and I made a move. Probably under the circumstances the right move. Chances were we would of all been capped if i had stayed and killed the tank with you on the up coming choke point at ladder. Which you three were. It isnt about whether it was wrong or right. Sometimes we make it sometimes we dont. Sometimes its right sometimes its not. The game is subjective and limited to one's own individual perspective and analysis. Communication is great and when there is time helps keep the wrong choice form occuring. This was way different.

Then we come back to spawn for the next wrong with you insulting me salt. Not to mention several others saying wtf? Like morning frost. Well from your perspective you all saw the tank get owned. I did not. I was cornered by three walls and fire in front. This usually isnt a good outcome for a hurt team. With the upcoming chokepoint really i would make the same choice again. Salt you say "sherriff thanks alot, i really am mad at you for running ahead like that and not teamplaying". I couldnt believe this reaction... and said "what the fuck are you talking about salt?" then you disconnected and rage quit. Yes i said it in a angry voice but thats all i said.

Whats more non teamplay. What i did or you ditching us without any explanation leaving us to find a replacement? Give me a fucking break... You posted so I am giving you my opinion about this. Dont take it personal your always a great guy and usually a great teamate. But since you are softly calling me out on the carpet. In this particular instance ill call you. Lets have 3 pages of posts analyzing the bitch move you pulled disconnecting and leaving us out to dry. Leaving me in a bad mood and ruining part of the game for me and your other three teamates. I then snapped at Ira which i regret about him finding me a replacement for us while i was working on it.

The shit is ABSOLUTELY rediculous, we are grown ups arent we? Grow up or shut up but this aint some always fair, everyone do the right thing always, perfect little tree house club salt. You did not question me not about the moment which i would of loved to explain my perspective. You attacked me from a angle as though you were right and cared more about bitching at me then understanding me. Then you threw in the "i thought you were a teamplayer" attitude which was more then i could care to have patience with.

So there it is... In all its wonderful fucking glory. Nothing solved, no increase of patience and using thick skin knowing its a game of interpretation. No just more crying and whining, im glad my mother doesnt read this shit. I would be embarrassed at times with the amount of inmaturity. I do things wrong as much as the next guy... but either im drunk (no excuse) or i did it with good intentions but it was the wrong choice. I dont question your intentions every time you fuck up so i dont think it is to much to ask to not question mine. I told myself to drop it last night. Not to pm you and say "wtf". etc. But i get home and walk into fucking Opra land once again. Jack of all trades and Tenrou were my other two teamates. Ask them if it wasnt just like i say it was. And a poll ? Are you joking me ?

Smoke

Blah blah blah. Smoke, I'm not reading your novel.. all I care is this: Did you communicate your intentions with your team? Did they respond? If so, did they respond in favor. Those are the only facts that matter. If you did, great. If they didn't respond, that's on them. If they did, and most were in favor, great. If they did and the only to respond was against it, and no one else said anything, you need to assume your team didn't want you to do it and get back with your team. I don't care if it was you in this situation or Sukka, the rules apply to us all. Granted, mistakes and miscommunications happen (don't believe me? Ask Knee about last night when we had a miscommunication). And the "thick skin" argument is a non-issue.. unless you think CSS admins need to get thick skins.. but oh wait, you are one...

In the end, all these issues are easily resolved by communication.

**Walkerxes** · 07-06-11, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by judedeath

This should have been PMs, and this drama is getting nothing done other than pointing fingers, so could we get a mod to lock this and if you need to continue please take it to PMs.

And this, 100%. Salt, Smoke, take Jude's words to heart here. This should have been a PM issue.

**Walkerxes** · 07-06-11, 05:19 PM

In fact, the resolution of this is STILL a PM issue. Finish this there, kiss and make up (Salt, Smoken drools, so get a napkin) and be done. then go play. Locked.

**iravedic** · 07-06-11, 05:47 PM

Look - I was there and I absolutely see both sides. Long and short is that you are both right and both wrong.

There was a judgment call - was it right maybe. Salt got pissed and Smoken responded in kind. The fact that Salt was pissed is understandable, the fact that he bailed not very teamplay.

Salt, consider whether there were other things going on that night. In a prior game you were capped outside the gun room on the Barns level of Carny because a teammate shut a door before you got thru. I've never seen you get pissed off like that over a simple mistake and I've played multiple games with you for over 3 years. I have to believe that you were somewhat predisposed to jumping on these kinds of issues.

Smoken, you made a call. And given the instant situation it may have been the right call. That being said, you have the skill and the leadership to drive a team through those tough situations. You also are quick to defend your actions, agressively. You will also admit when you are wrong, even in hindsight.

All in all it could have been handled better by both of you.

**SmokenSherriff_** · 07-06-11, 08:03 PM

Walker I love ya but here... you hit a nerve.

The game is situational and has variables. That is the only point that matters here. Those things trump your communication argument. Sometimes you dont have time too or while people are speaking your not hearing. While I have chosen to take the high road in and not cry about it here is the fact.

Fact is I got attacked by salt, defended myself land he raged quit. Brought it to the forumns where he tried to rehash again. I simply have defended my actions. Not as wrong or right in running from strategy aspect but definitley right in I was trying to teamplay.

Do not come in here and talk down to me in your tone, i dont give a shit who you are. I dont even need to quote all your stupid bullshit you spewed here. All of it should of been directed somewhere else then at me. I did nothing wrong. Nothing. Dont blanket me in having fucking blame in this situation. I do enough on my own to deserve blame. I dont need to be sweated when im not in the wrong.

Well, the only question here is a strategy based one. That is not what we are here to discuss. We are here to discuss actions and attitudes unbecoming of TPG. Mine were obviously not. 1000% not. Maybe from some one elses perspective it was the wrong strategy move and that may upset them. Fine... I do make wrong choices as we all do. So the "book" i took time to write and let you make your smart ass remarks about was important to me. Was important in trying to alllow Salt to see my perspective. Frankly I dont give a shit whether u read or not. Not cool by u. Lastly the "thick skin" argument does apply.

Because thick skin is what keeps someone from coming in here and making moutains out of molehills which is exactly what we have here.

Get a clue on being helpful and not little man syndroming me. I would expect more mutual respect than that. Im a grown fucking man, you go play!

Drool on this.

Smoke