Thread: shock and awe

I'd like to start off saying that I have been playing on Texas Teamplayers Project reality Server for many months, and I have been a good team player and have never run into any problems with administration. However, recently I was banned and I followed the rules and regulations and went through the process. Throughout the entire time, I was respectful, clear, and I only stated facts about my case. To my dismay, I have found my un-ban sustained. To be quite honest with you, I am shocked. I would like a 3rd party not involved with the case to objectively review the facts and make a decision. It doesn't appear to be a very democratic process if the banning admin acts as the judge, jury and executioner.
What I believe happened in my particular case, is that the admin(s) wrongly banned me, and instead of admitting to a mistake, would rather attempt to make up truths and use their position to regard them as absolute. In my case I provided the logs as evidence for my argument, the only bit of evidence that there was. I have often read in these forums, admins making referance to situations in real life, when it comes to the un-ban process. Well, in real life, when a defendant provides hard evidence, that of which is neutral to the parties involved, the judge and jury look at that in high regard, compared to that of personal opinion or recollection.

That being said, I would like to point you to my case, and I would like a neutral party to review it. I regard that this is only a fluke, and not the typical way that regular players are treated by this institution.

regards,
Ret

link to case in reference: http://www.texasteamplayers.com/index.php?topic=33270.0
link to my statistics: http://www.gametracker.com/server/72...7/player/Ret1/
edit: link to log if you don't believe me http://67.19.3.130/misc/game_logs/BF...2008_03_21.log
edit: for further reading, here is the material that was modded out by one of the administrators involved (note this time I did not mask the names, as site administrator ruled that logs are public domain)

I'll gladly respond to this. I don't recall being temporarily banned in the past, but it's possible. Anyone that plays PR knows that TKs occur, whether it be a bouncing grenade, stray fire, or a misplaced shot. So it doesn't surprise me if I had a previous temporary ban issued by punkbuster for tk's.

I am surprised by the ban, because if the alleged incedent reported, was reported at 16:05 and the ban took place much later
allegation:
52 Josef.Gurggles 1 Global [16:05:34] PLease ban Ret1 for intentional tking?
52 Josef.Gurggles 1 Global [16:05:41] he just ran up and knifed me

perhaps the below text was a warning? 3 minutes later, in response to josef.gurggles allegations? I don't think that it is, I believe
it is in reference to something with dangchang.


13 =PHX= w4jchosen 1 Squad [16:08:34] HUD_TEXT_CHAT_SQUAD!s check your fire now!!!
-1 Admin None ServerMessage [16:08:34] CHECK YOUR FIRE NOW!!!
48 NHbird 1 Squad [16:08:46] HUD_TEXT_CHAT_SQUAD!k dang ff
-1 Admin None ServerMessage [16:08:50] KICKING!!! [deuce4]dangchang FF
[3/21/2008 4:08:53 PM] ***COMMANDER*** KICKING!!! [deuce4]dangchang FF


josef asks someone in his squad if he is the admin, probably in reference to chang being kicked.
52 Josef.Gurggles 1 Squad [16:09:26] HUD_TEXT_CHAT_SQUADRH are you admin?

chang comes back on asking who the admin is:
54 [deuce4]dangchang 1 Global [16:10:30] apparently throwing smoke grenades is "freindly fire"
54 [deuce4]dangchang 1 Team [16:11:25] HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMwhos admin here
54 [deuce4]dangchang 1 Global [16:13:01] whos admin here

dangchang gets kicked for asking who the admin is:
***COMMANDER*** KICKING!!! [deuce4]dangchang FF [3/21/2008 4:13:58 PM

This is the incedent where I asked for a ride from the tank, and his gunner or turret man jumped out and got tk'd and the tank turned towards me and ran me over with his tread.(interesting how it involves both dangchang and josef.gurggles)

-1 Admin None ServerMessage [16:19:30] TKPUNISH: [deuce4]dangchang punishes Josef.Gurggles for a teamkill ([deuce4]dangchang has 1 punishes and 0 forgives)
-1 Admin None ServerMessage [16:19:34] TKPUNISH: Ret1 punishes Josef.Gurggles for a teamkill (Ret1 has 1 punishes and 0 forgives)

dangchang finds it funny that he got killed and josef.gurggles inentionally ran me over.
54 [deuce4]dangchang 1 Global [16:19:37] LOL


josef.gurggles asking the admin by name, whom are supposed to remain annonymous mind you, yet he obtained his identity from asking his squad. (see the above text for reference)

52 Josef.Gurggles 1 Squad [16:19:41] HUD_TEXT_CHAT_SQUADban reti please NH

josef.gurggles cry's wolf again.
52 Josef.Gurggles 1 Squad [16:20:13] HUD_TEXT_CHAT_SQUADhe knifed me and now he hoped on my tank and died
52 Josef.Gurggles 1 Squad [16:20:16] HUD_TEXT_CHAT_SQUADjust to punish me

the admin he called by name asks if he teamkilled me, not sure if this was a rhetorical question, since "TEAMKILL" is in bold, and since josef.gurggles just teamkilled two teamates.
48 NHbird 1 Team [16:20:39] HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMDid he TEAMKILL you ?
52 Josef.Gurggles 1 Squad [16:21:00] HUD_TEXT_CHAT_SQUADyeah
52 Josef.Gurggles 1 Squad [16:21:16] HUD_TEXT_CHAT_SQUADok

This is where the admin initiated the ban

13 =PHX= w4jchosen1 Squad [16:21:27] HUD_TEXT_CHAT_SQUAD!b ret tk appeal@www.texasteamplayers.com
[3/21/2008 4:21:33 PM] w4jchosen BANNING!!! Ret1 BANNED: TK APPEAL@WWW.TEXASTEAMPLAYERS.COM [PERM]


I have taken all lines out of the server log, and posted the ones which pertain to the subject matter.

I find it interesting that there were 3 admins in a squad, with 2 of the admins being in the same clan as one another. This same admin later tanked with josef.gurggles

52 Josef.Gurggles 1 Squad [16:45:21] HUD_TEXT_CHAT_SQUADHUD_CHAT_DEADPREFIXwell good run asianator
6 =PHX= asianator365 1 Team [16:48:09] HUD_TEXT_CHAT_TEAMYo ice join tank killer squad

tank killer squad being the origional squad I was in and left.

w4jchosen already said that your ban wasn't due to you knifing Josef.Gurggles earlier in the round, but since you brought it up, the question begs to be asked: Why did you find it acceptable to intentionally kill one of your teammates?

Continuing on...
Josef.Gurggles runs you over with a tank. You then proceed to spawn in and get a sniper kit. After receiving your kit, you begin to fire at a teammate, presuming that he was the same guy that ran you over. So, question number two arises: Why did you find it acceptable to fire "warning shots" at friendly troops?

...and then you TK a friendly, which brings us back to question number one: Why did you find it acceptable to intentionally kill one of your teammates?


See, for somebody who harps upon the fact that he has 6747 minutes on the TTP PR server, you seem to be incredibly ignorant of the basic rules of the server. Intentional TKs are unacceptable, and yet you intentionally TKed twice, once by knifing Gurggles, and once by sniping a teammate in the tank hangar.

I'm sure there are plenty of players with less time on the PR server who know how to ask for admin assistance when they're TKed, not to fire upon friendly troops, and, most importantly, not to TK.

...and yet you, with your six thousand four hundred forty-seven minutes, didn't say anything when you were run over, instead opting to pick up a sniper rifle and go take pot shots at friendlies, eventually committing the TK which resulted in your ban.


But those are merely my thoughts. I'm sure some other folks will have additional insights, especially if they were there to witness the chain of events instead of having to rely on a convoluted story line like I do.

I will gladly let a 3rd party, not involved in this case step in and give their opinion. There are a few things, however, I would like to address.

It doesn't appear to be a very democratic process if the banning admin acts as the judge, jury and executioner.

Wrong. It is a very democratic process. Your ban is not sustained by just one person. It is voted on by the admin community that manages the PR server.

...and instead of admitting to a mistake, would rather attempt to make up truths and use their position to regard them as absolute

We/I made no mistake and had you at any time during your unban request had ever addressed your SECOND tk or showed any signs of remorse instead of avoiding/ignoring it, you would have had a good shot of being back on the server right now. Nothing was made up. It was witnessed by two admins. If I screwed up you would know it, because I would be the first too admit it and publicly apologize to whoever I did wrong.

In my case I provided the logs as evidence for my argument, the only bit of evidence that there was.

Which you manipulated or conveniently used to misdirect to the first TK, of which I will say again IS NOT WHAT YOU WERE BANNED FOR.

Well, in real life, when a defendant provides hard evidence, that of which is neutral to the parties involved, the judge and jury look at that in high regard, compared to that of personal opinion or recollection.

And there is also such a thing as eyewitnesses of which there were two, that present their evidence and the most we can get out of you is, "look at the logs, look at the logs". Well the logs don't tell everything. A tk does not show up in the logs unless someone punishes for it. And since the person you tk'd the second time didn't punish you for it we rely on the two admins who witnessed it.

So now you would have to question the integrity and the ability of the two admins who were witnesses.

And in that lies the root of the issue. Do the two admins in question have something out for you? Are they just ignorant and haven't been trained properly? Did they both just have an off night and while both seeing the same thing just completely blow it? Man how that would suck for the both of us if that were true.

I will give you this Ret1, you have conducted yourself professionally in the unban request and so far in this abuse thread. You have remained calm, used what is available to you although manipulated it, but yet you for some reason or another NEVER addressed the second TK.

You may or may not know this, but you do have the right to appeal your ban in 30 days. I would use that opportunity wisely. That is not to disuade you concerning this thread, it will run it's course, it is only to point you in a direction that will better help that chance when the opportunity arises.

That is all I will say. You are a smart guy. You can figure it out.

Now to the 3rd party...