(Helpful) Gimmicking is Punishable?

**AtillatheBum** · 07-30-11, 12:17 AM

Look, I was just kicked from the TF2 main server, most likely by Coors but I don't know for sure. I think it was completely unfair. First I was gimmicking, I fully admit that. I was playing shotgun heavy with the Family Business. However I was not being detrimental to the team, I was doing quite well and nearly leading the scoreboard with something like 40 points. I was still teamplaying as well; when a medic(xenon, I believe) indicated to me that he wanted to kritz me, I switched to my minigun because I knew it would be much more effective with the kritz. I wasn't doing anything other than playing and helping my team. Just because I was using a non-ideal weapon is no grounds for kick.

The only argument I can see for my actual kick was that after the admin had warned me, I typed a civil question about it in the chat and I indicated that I was going to follow what the admin dictated in that same line. I then proceeded to leave the spawn room I was in only to find myself immediately surrounded by enemies (it was a forward spawn). I already had the shotgun out and began using it, by some miracle I did not die and I actually ran out of shells. So then I did what I thought most people would of done, I switched to my melee weapon and tried to finish off the enemies I'd wounded and succeeded in killing one.

If that's not the case though, I think its ridiculous to kick someone for just using a different weapon than normal. There's nothing against using the FaN, the regular fireaxe, or the Direct Hit just because they're not as good as other options.

**DJ Ms. White** · 08-01-11, 06:46 AM

As a rule, we never discuss admin actions in game. The forums allow for us to ask questions without disturbing the gameplay.

There is also nothing wrong with using only using a certain weapon, so long as you are being effective. However, since most people who stick to a non-main weapon like the shotgun on a heavy do it for the lols/trolling, you can understand why the admin gave out the warning.

**Mobi** · 08-01-11, 08:43 PM

DJ from a person who is actually getting back into TF2 and hasn't gotten those weapons like others have... I would like to say that well what if people want to use the new weapons but have no attention in affecting the game... Because maybe they are good with it or they are wanting to use it to try it out... I've seen many admins complain about the use of real weapons but what in my book is real and what should be avoided? To me I have no idea what real weapons are I just use the weapons I have and work on my skill with them.. Real weapons to me is basically the standard weapons that was first released in the game... TF2 is suppose to be a light fun game where you can use a personal weapon and perhaps be great at it....

**DJ Ms. White** · 08-02-11, 06:24 PM

The main thing to keep in mind is to work for the win by helping your team. So long as that is your goal and you are communicating that is your goal, most people will have no problem with you. If someone does, just hop on VOIP or type in chat that you're trying out a weapon or that you want to play the class differently for a change of pace. Communication is the key.

**enf** · 08-02-11, 06:45 PM

Atilla -- I was in the game at the time and I did notice that you were doing quite well with the shotty on granary. The main thing that warranted the kick (which wasnt initiated by me) is that your team had asked that you use the mini gun, Im assuming to provide better cover fire for the team. Regardless of the reasoning, multiple people on your team messaged the admins in game saying that you weren't listening to the requests of your team and thats what it comes down to basically.

You might be racking up the kills, but if your team is asking you to provide a different specialty that is needed at that time, you need to listen to your team. It would be like a medic running around with his needle gun just because hes really good at getting kills with it also being a no-no. While there was a brief discussion by the admins in game whether or not to intervene since you were doing well with the gun, the decision was made by one admin to kick for not listening to your team and he was well within his right to do so.

So next time this happens, listen to your team's needs and if you think what youre doing is helpful, explain it to your team. If youre still getting flak, its time to switch weapons or even classes.

**Captain Coors** · 08-02-11, 07:05 PM

I didn't kick you although as a fellow player at the time I was asking you and your other heavy buddy that was shotgun-only with you to quit it because it was getting annoying watching you guys shotty people in places where it was obvious the minigun (primary weapon for you non-tf2 readers) would work better.

Yes playing weird playstyles is allowed until your team starts asking you to quit it and I wasn't the only one asking you.

You know that Atila come on, you've seen countless people on our server melee around with the fists+steak, sticky jump+caber people, etc. including me, without getting kicked or banned because they quit when asked, so I dont know why you are all up in arms about something so trivial.

**AtillatheBum** · 08-03-11, 12:56 AM

I think maybe 2 or 3 people asked me to stop including you, but regardless, I wasn't using the shotgun only, I did in fact switch to my minigun when I felt it was much, much more appropriate as in the case in my OP. The exact person who kicked me isn't really a concern for me, I was just posting who I thought did it from my own recollection; this post isn't supposed to be singled against any one admin.

My main point was that I wasn't breaking my class' defined roll (short range power and survivability) where as a needling medic (supposed to be healing) would be, or a meleeing sniper (long range attacking) would be. While I'm not saying skill is an excuse for disobeying the rules, I must again point out I was doing very well and was helping the team to the fullest extent within my own self-imposed "rules" (minimal use of minigun obv.).

Here is how it went from what I remember: I get asked by coors and others on my team to switch to minigun, I die to something, in the next life I get an admin warning in god chat, I die soon after, I spend about 30 secs typing up my reply to the admin and a written confirmation that I would follow his verdict, I leave spawn and immediately start fighting, I die and am kicked while respawning.

I know this can be somewhat of a grey area and I understand that the team/admin was asking me to use the minigun. I in fact did plan on switching and even said as much in game, but before I could really do so, someone pulled the trigger and kicked me. I think this was the most ridiculous part; again, using the shotgun preferentially should not be punishable, there are a lot of weapons in TF2, and just because some are worse than others shouldn't preclude you from being able to use them. If we wanted to do that, just have nothing but combat classes and medics.

**FragRaptor** · 08-03-11, 02:36 PM

I was not a witness to this event but I do believe I have an opinion that could aide in this discussion.

You know, a while back I was attempting to learn how to use the huntsman on at a level that I could compete with riflemen. At times people would tell me that I'm not helping the team with it and it usually lead to some drama. The fact of the matter was that I chose a technique to learn and I tried my best. After all that is what the spirit of this community has always been, help everyone who cares enough to be great.

Even though I wasn't able to kill the most people or deal the most damage I was still communicating, still on the objective, and still dying with the satisfaction that I tried my best.

Although what I say above may sound like a comparison to what you guys are talking about, it is not. The major difference between these two mindsets is that I used my entire kit as best I could, dealing damage with the huntsman, allowing others good hits with the jarate and hitting spies with my sword. There if I do bad it isn't that I did anything wrong, I just suck.

However if you are purposefully trying to not use a good half of your damage output because you want a challenge isn't very right. Essentially what you are doing is risking your team by saying "you know, I'll use the thing if I HAVE to, but I don't WANT to use it." It is pretty much the same thing as playing sniper just to try and jarate and slice people because you think the way people can bleed out is funny.

The grey area is a fine line between "are you giving everything you have to win" and if you are limiting the best portion of the kit that you have equipped yourself with.

As per weapons being used. It is always a matter of "are you going for the objective" and it should never be a matter of "are you getting enough kills".

Thank you for reading this opinion from an old friend. Hope this helps. :)

**enf** · 08-03-11, 02:57 PM

I dont think this issue should have come to admin intervention when multiple team members are asking a regular to change up their playstyle strategy to better help the team. Bottom line is you were asked by an admin to listen to your team and even though it could have been bad timing with dying/respawning, the admin was within his right to punish.

Admin abuse claim denied.